Black Walnut

[Stan P]

Hello Everybody,

 I was in the woods after our big wind storm collecting what I think are black walnuts. 

 I collected from under two trees several miles apart.  Both had very large almost perfectly round husks.  They both had a very simlar interesting smell which I find very hard to describe, but something you want to smell. (leaving myself open there for lots of wise cracks)

 The nuts on the first tree were easy to peel out and made quite a mess with the black tarlike stuff.  The nuts from the second tree were hard to get out, they seemed much more green (not black and easy to pull apart) and the nuts were much larger, even though before being peeled out of the case they were about the same size on the outside. 
Also, the large greener nuts, came from a much much smaller tree. 
 Do I have two different types of black walnuts?

  I heard butternuts are similar, but from my childhood I seem to remember they were not round and were very sticky on the outside. 

I plan to plant these not eat them. 

any thoughts would be appreciated.

[Riles]

Pictures! We need pictures!

[Stan P]

OK.  Let me get back to the house tonight and dig some up if I can. 

[beenthere]

Stan P
I find the same thing, or similar, with the walnuts. Trees that are small, can produce nuts with small husks, but large nuts, and other trees can produce them with large husks and small nuts. Also all the range in between. Seems to be a between tree variation, not within tree - so I suspect a difference in type (variety or genetic some way). I have a favorite walnut tree that produces the best nut meats I've found, and the husks are small, the nut large and the meats large.

Same way the shagbark hickory trees around here. There is one tree with nuts good size and the nut meats also good size. I have other trees with good size nuts, and very small nut meats.  Pays to 'shop around', IMO. 

[SwampDonkey]

Stan, sounds like walnut. As beenthere says the size can vary between trees. I have smaller walnuts up here than I saw in Virgina, but they aren't native here and I think frost hardiness and growing season affects them. Also my trees are not considered mature, they are 15 years old. I notice the leaves will stay on longer than native butternut up here also. As an afterthought, doesn't pignut hickery have a small nut encased in a green husk? I seem to remember picking those in the woods and bringing them home to plant.

[IL Bull]

The first one sounds like a black walnut.  Butternut does not have a round husk like a walnut does.

[Bro. Noble]

They both had a very simlar interesting smell which I find very hard to describe, but something you want to smell.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

We used to keep methiolade or mecurachrome in the medicine cabinet for cuts and scratches.  I don't know if that is the same chemical that's in walnut hulls but they sure smell the same.  The old timers used to rub walnut hulls on scratches as a disinfectant.  I don't know if it was effective or not. 

The hulls are green on the outside and yellowish on the inside when they first mature.  As they get more mature and weather some,  they turn black and watery.  This is the stage that will really stain stuff.  They used to use hulls for a natural (walnut colored) stain.

The Thomas variety of walnut was developed many years ago and was supposed to have superior growth and nuts.  Hammond Products at Stockton,  Mo.  is one of and maybe the largest buyers of walnuts in the world.  I remember about 30 years ago they would pay a premium for large nuts with thin hulls.  They wanted them for their own research plantations.  It's amazing the many uses they have for the meats as well as the shells.  If you're interested,  they probably have a website.  They also did a lot of research and trials with intercroping in walnut plantations.

[Stan P]

great color.  thank you.  the green ones are still somewhat yellow inside.  they seem like they are both the same nut.  have an almost strong evergreen smell.  I plan to let them freeze over the winter and plant them in the spring.  I heard they take better if the outer casing is removed first.

great forum.

Stan

[Stan P]

Given that the green nuts fell off in the wind storm before they were fully "ripe" I wonder if they not work as seeds. I know with certain flowers a seed needs to sit in the husk til it springs open.  otherwise it will be useless. 

[raycon]

I did not read all the posts but ....if you're thinking of using them for seeds.
Heres how I'm doing it.
Dehusk them.
Put them in a bucket of water and the ones that sink are good for seeds(?).Store them in the freezer for the winter or bury them as a group outside for the winter. Dig up and plant in spring appropriate spacing.
I've got a 5 gallon bucket about 2/3 full ready for the float test. 

I've never planted a walnut from seed ...my grandkids will let you know how turns out.

[ohsoloco]

The sink or swim test works for eating them too   

The sinkers you dry out to crack and eat, and toss the floaters 

[jon12345]

Butternuts are green to start out with and then turn brown and are very sticky and are kinda oblong shape, like a little lemon or a lime.

To stratify the seeds you could probably plant them where you were going to in the spring and leave them over winter there and just mark where you planted them so they aren't forgotten

[Stan P]

thanks for the advice gents.

 John.  I think we used to be neighbors.  If you are in the Newport in Herkimer County. 

Stan

[jon12345]

But I thought this was the ONLY Newport in the United States   

Yep, Herkimer county.   Where were you located?

[Stan P]

thanks for all the input.  Hopefully, we will know in a year or so if any of them take.

John, Fishing Rock Road.  yourself?

[BlaBla]

Stan-

I think you'll want to refrigerate the nuts rather than freeze them if you want them to take next year. I'll PM you some stratificationinstructions from a walnut expert. I've tried these directions, and they work like a charm.

[jon12345]

Originally from Norway (not the country) now I live near the old elementary school in Newport.

the west canada is my 2nd home 

[SPIKER]

how i was tought was simply take the wallnuts, (stillin the husk or de-husked) and simply toss on the dirt & step on them so they are seated flush or slightly below grade, sure some won't take but they are nuts only or is that only nuts?  

someone mentioned pig nut, those are hickory family. (I have several varities of hickory nuts on my place american shag bark hickory, pig (bitternut) & king nut) these are the 3 main ones around here.  as the name applies the american has smaller nuts with thick husks that split into 4 main parts around the nut the nut is ok tasting it has a shaggy bark which can peel pretty far back in graish color.

 the bitter nut/pig hickory has slightly larger nuts with thinner husks and is mentioned bitter not pallitable nuts. the bark almost appears to be an OAK, with closer & less deep fissures in it.

the king hickory has largest of the nuts which tase slightly milder but more meat with the same thick hull as the american shagbark hickory.  it's bark is similar to the shagbark but may be slightly lighter and peels less near the bottom of the tree from the ones I've seen.   this is all in lamens terms though and only my basic back woods teachings...

[SwampDonkey]

Pignut C. glabra is often confused with red hickory C. ovalis which has several varieties and most people don't bother separating them. Bitternut is C. cordiformis and is bitter as the common name suggests. Pecan C. illinoensis is the largest hickory and it's nut is sweet, used in cooking.

Hickory and walnut are both of the walnut family juglandaceae

[isassi]

Swampdonkey, Just curious here, but if hickory and walnut are related...and pecan is another variety of hickory, why such a difference in coloring? This is not a subject i know a lot about. I didn't know pecan was a hickory til reading in another forum.