Mystery pine?

[ohsoloco]

I'm not even sure if it is a pine.  I picked up this log from a tree removal a while back (central PA).  The log in the pictures is the second log on the trunk, the first one being a 12 footer.  The first log was just as knotty...covered with limbs.  Tom's post in another thread about Pond Pine got me thinking about this tree, since he said it had a lemon smell.  This tree has a hint of a citrus smell when cut. 




This next pic is of the only needles left on the log.




The ends darken like this not long after being cut




This is the same end after making a fresh cut a couple inches in




Any ideas 

[solodan]

 

definitely not a ponderosa.
does it smell like citrus or does it smell sour?
the water in white fir smells sour.
the bark looks like it could be young white fir,  but  it looks pretty knotty.
perhaps not growing in its native climate has altered its appearance. it  would be easyier to identify if you had a better picture of the needles. are the needles round or flat? does the needle have a vein on the bottom? is the needle shiney or dull or both? my guess is that it is one of the true firs of the west and was planted as an ornamental.

[ohsoloco]

Smelled like citrus to me    I think the camera focused on the spuce cant, rather than the needles.  Didn't take that much time to look at the needles to say any more until I get another look, and maybe another pic. 

[Timburr]

From the dark heart and the darker compression wood patches on photo #3 and the bark cross-section on pic. 4, my guess is Grand fir (Abies grandis).
Does it have resin blisters on it's smoother bark?
The circular bark ridges around the branch stubs seem to suggest a true fir.
To me,  Grand fir smells of sweet cat pith -urine 

Tim

[solodan]

I think we are on to something. White Fir (Abies concolor)also smells like urine, sometimes known as Pee Fir.
Grand Fir (Abies grandis) is sometimes known as lowland White Fir. I originally guessed  White Fir, because this is a species that often gets planted in the midwest and east coast as an ornamental. This is usually the substitute for Colorado Blue Spruce. Crushed Grand Fir needles have a slight smell of citronella or orange. I think Tim is right on this one.
Grand Fir.

[SwampDonkey]

Looks like fir to me, not sure of species. But it looks like it started out as a future Christmas* tree with all those branch knots.

[ohsoloco]

I'm not familiar with any types of fir, so I guess that's why I'm not familiar with this one    Got some boards out of the 12 foot butt log, but I think this will be cut into blocking.

[jon12345]

unidentifiabilicus treeus

[floyd]

Needle tips "notched"?  Bark have lotta pitch pockets?  elevation?

Lots of true firs will x-pollinate. Sub alpine fir smells worse than grand of white

Sub alpine more of steeple shape than grand or white.

underside of white/grand will have white lines along center of needle.
Needles on sub alpine shorter than grand/white.

[ohsoloco]

Whatever it is, it will be an 8x8 or 6x6 tomorrow 

[Paul_H]

It could be Douglas Fir.It has a pleasant smell and the wood can be quite Orange in colour like your fresh cut pic shows.It's too bad you don't have a better picture of the needles.

[SwampDonkey]

Just a little info, that probably doesn't lead to the identiciation of that stick of pulp above.

What about amabilis fir (Abies amabilis)? Amabilis looks almost like balsam to me. In fact the locals I worked with on the coast called it balsam. It is signified by the use of 'Ba' in inventory and site classification literature of BC. Amabilis fir is what you call 'Pacific Silver Fir' in the states. No fir at all on the Charlottes, but it's ecological Classification follows that of the Vancouver Forest Region (just a little trivia). Subalpine grows up in the higher elevations of the coast range. Probably elsewhere, but I don't know it's range eastward. When we did PHSP prescriptions in the Skeena and along the coast, in the Prince Rupert Forest Region, the amabilus and subalpine fir were typed out separate with different ecological classification (site series), just as western and mountain hemlock were distinct. I sure wish we had balsam as big as amabilis I've seen on the coast, some of them 4 feet on the butt mixed in sitka spruce stands.

ohsoloco, a 10x or 7x closeup lens would be nice for them 'in your face' photo shots.

[ohsoloco]

Donk, I have enough trouble figuring out the camera I have now    I milled that log up a few hours ago, and it looks a lot like blue spruce when it's opened up....shoulda snapped a picture, I'll take a few after I head back home.

[SwampDonkey]

Blue spruce has more scaly bark like any spruce.

[SwampDonkey]

Blue Spruce branch


Blue Spruce needles


Balsam Fir branch


Balsam Fir needles

[ohsoloco]

I know this isn't a spruce, just thought I'd mention that the lumber looks a lot like it.  I mill lots of spruce    Here's a few pictures of that same log milled up: 

Those logs in the background are spruce

[SwampDonkey]

They don't separate spruce from fir lumber here. Fir is heavier because it has more moister, until it's kilned. Going off on one of my tangents here. It's funny though, if you have a mixed load (spruce and fir ) or a load of fir logs they cut your $$/thousand. Sometimes they'll take all they can get at the spruce price. All kinds of games are played. Just like hauling potatoes to McCain Foods, you never know how they'll treat your load.  You folks south of the border are using it in construction and I doubt you care which it is, some don't even know the difference.

[Tom]

If you go way south of the border, like down here, the box stores sell a new species called Hemfir.  There might be a Sprucefir now too.  I haven't bought from them in a long time.   We've been wonderin what you guys are doing with the genetics way up there. 

[SwampDonkey]

I had to do a little editing

I will add though, that I don't want any eastern hemlock mixed in with my fir, unless it's free. Makes good kindling they say.

[Tom]

Yep, it goes into construction.  The knotheads that do the building inspection will OK that non-descriptive stuff or even something called 'Whitewood", How generic can you get?, and still give a landowner grief who wants to use Southern Yellow Pine off of his property to build his house.   Go figure.  It's a conspiracy, I tell ya! 

[SwampDonkey]

That term whitewood: Loggers up here refer to it as understory shrubs, such as hobblebush, moosewood, mountain maple and hazel bushes. The only shrub in the lot that would be merchantable is moosewood (aka striped maple). I've seen it cut for hardwood pulp.

[raycon]

I have about twenty logs left that look similar. We have no market for such logs so I've been  milling  them into timbers (10x10's) man there light. The boat yards & boat haulers love'm for blocking. Search Brownell blocking for pricing. What they charge will shock you I don't know if they get people to pay that price.

What I've come to realize when it comes to nonmarketable trees(in our area)  is that the land clearers,log haulers myself we call the unidentified logs a name an it sticks until someone comes along and corrects us. We've been calling what you got in the picture Norway Spruce and on occassion we switch back to black spruce -- no logic.  The one indicator is I can bend over pick up a 7x10 14 feet long with out killing himself.  I figure they will make a decent rafter timber if the knot density is not to bad.

[SwampDonkey]

What I've come to realize when it comes to nonmarketable trees(in our area)  is that the land clearers,log haulers myself we call the unidentified logs a name an it sticks until someone comes along and corrects us. We've been calling what you got in the picture Norway Spruce and on occassion we switch back to black spruce -- no logic.  The one indicator is I can bend over pick up a 7x10 14 feet long with out killing himself. 

Sorry one of them moments.

[Pullinchips]

not sure if this has been said, i have not read all posts yet but not pond pine.

After rading more posts i see that a fir has come to consensus, maybe?
My first thought was fraiser fir by the log because i am not to good on firs, but it looked like a fir trunk to me.  So i'll go with fir, but no idea which species.

-Nate