using your wood waste slabs and sawdust etc

[Quebecnewf]

Is there anything out there in the boiler line that would allow you  to burn your slabs and generate electricity. I could see something along the lines of your sawmill is connected to the electrical grid and as you saw you would fire up the boiler and feed in the slabs throughout the day. All the power you produce is used up by your mill and any extra is fed back into the grid. If you don't fire up the boiler you just run of the grid as normal. Am I dreaming in colour or is this type of thing possible in a mid sized operation.

[Brad_S.]

A friend looked into co-gen as you describe and was frightened away by the cost and the rules that accompany such a venture. Say the word 'boiler' and you get all sorts of regulatory and safety agencies excited. I don't know the specifics of what transpired, but he was pretty bummed about it.

[sawdust]

A buddy looked at building a gasifier to fuel a 460 ford to spin a genset. Alberta government does not look happily upon putting power back into the grid. They prefer that we simply purchase it from big business and keep our mouths shut. end of rant. Short version is, too many hoops.

sawdust

[farmerdoug]

I think that you should look into the wood gas generator that Mother Earth News built in the 70's or 80's.  You use the wood gas to run a engine to power the generator.  I still have that copy somewheres but that would be a project in its self.  Look up their web site and they probably still have info on it.

Farmerdoug

[spencerhenry]

in colorado, "green" power is in demand. people have the option to pay more for electricity generated from wind power. recycling slabs, saw dust , and other waste is also probably good. here in co, if you generate power beyond your needs, i believe the utilities are required by law to buy it from you. i know there are tiny hydro generation units that do this.

[woodbowl]

Here is a thread about gasogen generators that you may want to check out. I thought there would be more interest on the subject. I guess fuel isn't quite high enough yet.-------------Anybody know how to make sawdust burn hot without smoldering?


http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=13851.0

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Suspend it in the chamber with air.

[Tom]

Deadheader is right.

My cousin used to work for St. Regis Paper here in town.  They would visit the carpentry shop frequently to get the sawdust from under the saws and squirrel it away in big boxes in the boiler rooms.  One of his jobs was helping to fire the boilers.  They were fired with wood chips and bark.    They called the sawdust "White dynamite".   When the fires got a little too low and the boilers needed a quick kick,  they would throw shovel fulls of White Dynamite into the fire box along with a strong burst of compressed air.  He said it would get super hot immediately, even before you could back out of the way.  The boilers would be brought back to temperature right then.

If you throw a shovel full of sawdust on a fire without dispersing the particles, the fire will go out.  The sawdust may smolder but won't burn.

[Furby]

i believe the utilities are required by law to buy it from you. i know there are tiny hydro generation units that do this.

Yup, but they are allowed to charge you a processing fee per month. So you'd have to produce a lot to cover the fee, before you make anything.
Also you must provide the equipment for the hook up, saftey shut downs and so on.
And the power you generate must be "clean" and of the apropiate "wave".
Long list of hoops to jump through to make it work.

[Ron Wenrich]

I helped site a co-gen power plant.  It was an air suspended system with a fluidized bed.  Rule of thumb was 10,000 tons of woodwaste/Megawatt/yr, if I remember correctly.  Figure out how many tons you generate, then go from there.

We signed a contract with the local utility and we had to guarantee a certain amount of electricity on either a daily or monthly basis.  If you didn't meet that, then there were some pretty heavy penalities.  Our buyback rate was 7 cents/kw.  I'm not sure what that amount would be right now.

After you figured your potential income, figure out how much you could get for those slabs and dust without the other capital investment.  You might find out that you're better off without the extra boiler, unless you have a market for the trash steam.

[Fla._Deadheader]

 When I was getting the backyard Gen system going in Arkansas, We would use a Synchronous Inverter, hooked into the Breaker Box. It would allow you to use your power first. Then, if you had extra, it would feed into the grid, turning your meter backwards. That was the ONLY requirement, aside from double throw switch box, to stop feedback when the grid was down.

  Sometimes, when you talk to the Power Company, you make it sound like a BIG operation, and then, the long list comes into play.

  Look into the Synchronous Inverter before doing any more figuring. That would be the easiest way, and requires no BIG list, unless you wanna become a "player".

[Furby]

That was then, this is now Harold.
We can no longer do lots ot things we once did.

[spencerhenry]

 timely thread. today i finally had to do something about the slab and edging pile. while i dont do that much milling, slab disposal and handling sure seems to take alot of time. i have a wood stove, and burn as much as i can, i also give away as much as i can. what does everybody else do with their slab? i thought of renting a chipper, but that takes just as much or more time, and is also expensive. i burn in a big pile all that i can, but i cant burn here except in winter or spring. also, do custom sawyers charge a fee for disposal of slab?

[woodbowl]

Not me, I saw on their site.   It's a big mess when I do occasionally saw on my site. I did the same thing you did. It may leave a bad taste to have little charges. I know it annoys me to pay to leave the old tire when I buy a new one, so I just take it with me. Hey, I know.........

[Ron Wenrich]

You can put a lot of material in a chipper in a short amount of time.  A lot depends on how easy it is to handle.  Before we had a chipper, we would stack our slabs and edging strips in a rack.  Then, we banded it for easier handling and sold bundles of slabwood.

When we started to saw more than the market wanted, we would chip on a Saturday for about half a day. 

Another option is to make shavings.  The only problem is that shavers usually only take 4' lengths.  Shavings are good for poultry and cattle, but really are good for horses. 

[Warren]

Mr. Wenrich,

I would appreciate if you could say more about "shavers".  I also have an issue with slab disposal.  I live in horse country.  No one wants the fine sawdust off a band mill.  But they are interested in shavings to bed horse stalls.  Are there any links or references to companies that build/sell "shavers" ?

All help appreciated.

[Ron Wenrich]

Jackson Lumber Harvester in Wisconsin makes one. http://www.jacksonlbrharvester.com/ 

I've also seen some that were home built.  We have one outfit that produces shavings for chicken houses.  Theirs will accept 15' material.

Basically, its a metal hopper that holds material and is run back and forth over a cutter head.  The cutter head is about 2' wide and is normally the same thing you see off of a planer.  Discharge to the bottom.

I saw one operation that used a homemade shaver, then run them on a conveyor under 8 heat lamps with a wire placed to turn the shavings.  It dried them out, and he went and bagged them.  Bagging system is very expensive. 

[Frank_Pender]

A person could sure go wild with dreams at a place like that, Ron.

[Ron Wenrich]

I had 2 of their mills and still use their log turner.  Down to earth company with good customer support.  Maybe we should get them to advertise.   

[Russ]

Seems like somebody would make a sawdust pelletizer for smaller quantity's of sawdust. I throw my sawdust away , seems a shame .

[Frank_Pender]

Russ, I have looked into the pellet issue.  It is is binding agent and the drying of the fiver that caused me to stear away.   I also needed to put up a building and all for the drying and packageing.  I just decided to push a bit more on disposing of the sawdust and chips.  Since my sawdust is not as fine as the band mills it makes mine an little bit easier in marketing to horse an dog folks.   The chips for to folks for walking paths a such in gardens and yards.

[Radar67]

Sawdust works well as a soil amendment in your garden. Once the growing season is over, till it in to rot over the winter.

[beenthere]

Add a lot of nitrogen to the soil/sawdust mix, as the breakdown process uses up a lot of nitrogen.

[karl]

My MD sawdust goes as fast as I can make it to dairy farms for about  .15 a cu' - they haul my 3 altered manure spreaders and return them.

Live bottom 45' boxes full delivered are about .30cu'.

I would like to turn the surplus slabs that I don't need for the outdoor boiler into bedding also- do the planers handle bark well or is an adjustable disc chipper more appropriate? Most of my slabs and edgings are small as I use larger slabs for "log siding". Species are mostly fir, spruce, wht pine,
ew cedar, various hdwds in that order.

[Ron Wenrich]

A wood hog can reduce slabs into either bedding or mulch.  There are both vertical and horizontal models. 

Anybody use a tub grinder for slabs?

[Frank_Pender]

I have a friend in the Beaverton area that has recently purchased a MD mill and uses an 80 foot rock belting system to carry away the waste into an outside pile.  Then it is picked up with a trackhoe, which is fitted with a  thumb and  placed into a tub grinder.  He markets that material, which is mixed with other yard fall down materials from his yard service business. 

[karl]

Did a search on wood hogs-
Got more questions than answers
Can't see me investin' 7 g's in a mill (granted, it was used) and 100 g's in a grinder...........

Anybody used a disc type of chipper for slabs? The only one I have seen is Valby ch 160 pto powered.

[Ron Wenrich]

2 used hogs on the exchange for $5500 and one at $9500. 

[Frank_Pender]

Karl, I have a Valby for my tractor, but use it primarely for the smaller material scraps and the slabs for firewood.

[karl]

Duh, didn't even think of looking there  (now where did I leave my mind?)

Frank- that was my thought - to used the stuff with some size for firewood and chip the edgings and shop scrap ( I HATE cutting up those "slivers" and handling them for the stove)
Do you find the chips fine enough for bedding?
I wish you lived on this coast- I'd like to come over and play in your sandbox!

[Frank_Pender]

Karl, you can come and play in my 70 acre sandbox anytime you wish.   Yes the chips are small enough to use for cattle, sheep, goats, etc bedding.  Many people use the chips I produce for pathways and such in garden areas or even for one on their walking trails through their forested areas.  I get $10 a yard if they haul and $12 if I haul.  I will load for the $10 amount.

  As an example of the larger material, I am loaded and ready to haul a load to Portland, Sunday morning, of two cords of slab wood at a price of $190 a cord.  The wood is all stacked in the truck.  The first cord will have to be unloaded by hand and the second will be dumped at a second site about 5 miles away from the first.  The backhaul is a chainlink dog pen for a neighbor.   I will make enough on the backhaul to cover the cost of the wood load haul, I hope.

[Brian_Rhoad]

I have a Valby chipper. I think it is the model 240. It is the stationary type. Not 3 point and pto. I power it with a 6-71 detroit. It will take 9" round wood and a 12"-14" slab. The chips are blown right into a Schutte hammermill and come out as double ground mulch. I can sell more mulch than I make in a year so it works out pretty good for me!

[karl]

Tractor trailer loads here delivered go for a bit more than $8. yd....love to sell mine for $12.00!!!!!
Like most things I guess-Location is key.
The chipper is really beginning to sound like the toy...er TOOL for me.

Brian- wouldn't think that Detroit would be at all overworked by the 240, eh?

thanks for the info

[Brian_Rhoad]

The Detroit runs the chipper and hammer mill at the same time. I have stalled it and have "smoked" the belts also!