differences between swing blades

[lawyer_sawyer]

I have read both the Peterson site and the Lucas site and the D&L site and I was wondering if the swing blade owners could answer a few questions for me.

1.  What brand do you have and why did you choose it?
2. If you had it to do again would you do it the same ?
3. If you had any recommendations to people looking at swing blades what might they be?

I have tried to read as many links on swing blades also and it would be great to hear from the people who have experience in this area.

Thanks and sorry for such "newbie" style questions

[Fla._Deadheader]

 I just got mine, used. It's a Peterson 8-9" WPF Model, narrow frame. It will accomodate a 5' dia. log.

  Why I bought it is, price (used), and it has a one winch raising and lowering, cutting down on time spent using 2 winches. I'm adding an electric drive to the winch and MAY rig up a feed drive. (I'm gettin old)  Also has the high-low track attachment for rolling large logs inside the track, if needed.

  I like the design. Lucas is OK, just like things that Peterson has. Don't know much about D&L.

  Recommendations, Go find some and ask questions and maybe operate one. Only way to know for sure. Look for Forestry or Agri shows within driving distance.

[brdmkr]

I bought a Lucas 618. 

I bought a swing blade because I feel they are more portable (given I only have a Ford Ranger) than other types of mills, handle really large logs, and cut dimensioned lumber.  I bought a Lucas over a Perterson because of the price.  The way I will use the saw it should last me a lifetime with proper maintenance.  If I were to do it over again, I'd probably buy the same saw.  I am all about value and I think the Lucas is a good value.  If I were cutting for a living, I am not sure I'd make the same decision.  I like my Lucas, but I'd probably like the Peterson as well.  Don't know much about the D&L.  I'd get the videos, and try to see the mills in action.

[Arthur]

I bought a swinger after 5 years of looking at what was available.

I needed portability, reliability, able to cut anything I needed and most of all safety.

Although price is a consideration I wasnt looking for the cheapest just the best. Sames for the truck, bobcat, farm equipment, etc,etc.

D&L make two mills - their own transportable via trailer and the EcoSaw which is a swinger.  We ended up buying the EcoSaw because of its safety and its features which no other mill has.  Its the only one to swing 180degrees, and the only one to mill on the tapper of the log in 3D without moving either the log or the mill.  You can buy them in various configurations and are designed specifically to mill the log where it falls although we have a few additions for production milling in a static site.

Its not the cheapest.

You should contact D&L for their new video, visual explains much more.

arthur

[Tom]

Lawyer-Sawyer,

That's a smart thing to do, asking the users of the saws for their comments.   You will find that there is a lot of information to be gleaned from the posts and from asking the questions.  There will be a lot of people to offer suggestions.  It pays to be aware that some might have alternate agendas.   In all fairness,  We have some members who have financial  commitments with the saw companies in question.  I think I would take the opportunity to find which of those answering your questions are actually customers, as opposed to owners of companies or salesmen of products.

I'm not insinuating that you will receive bad information from these people, but, you never get the same information from a customer that you do from the salesman.

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Arthur, are you not the owner of Eco-Saw   I asked for that package back in January. Again in March. I saw you and Lindsay in Ohio, still no pkg.  

  How can you offer advice concerning safest machine of all the swingers, when there are very few reported cases of unsafe things happening with the other Swingers

  I'm not wanting to get into an argument about the machines, just curious about how you have the best machine. How many are in the US

[beenthere]

I bought a swinger after 5 years of looking at what was available.
...........
Although price is a consideration I wasnt looking for the cheapest just the best............
..........  We ended up buying the EcoSaw ...................
arthur

    Like FDH, I thought you owned the EcoSaw company, but in this 'quote' you seem to come on like you are just a real satisfied 'buyer'.  Hmmmm?  I guess you should be 'satisfied' if you own the company that made the saw you 'bought'.  Did you get a real good deal on it     Is this a hidden sales pitch? Or does it just appear that way?  Sorry, but your original posts indicate you 'are' EcoSaw. 

Haven't heard from any EcoSaw owners yet on what they think of the EcoSaw.  Maybe I missed that somewhere, and I can be led there.. 
Maybe........

[Part_Timer]

Hi 

I have the Peterson 8" ATS with a 25hp Kohler and lap sider.  I emailed Captain and asked him if there would be a Peterson at the shootout that I could try and run.  not only would he let me run one he told me to bring my own log and we'd cut it up.  I had some conserns about running Osage through one but Craig told me to load it in the truck and bring some along  If it would not do it then I knew not to buy one.  I figured that if they would let me bring my own logs then it must be as advertised.  I did not have a log but they let me have a run on one and Ga_Boy spent a lot of time answering all my questions.

Everyone at Petersons was more than helpful in getting the mill through customs and they called a week after I had the mill to check and make sure I got it together.

If I had to do it again the only thing I'd do different would be to have bought it sooner and maybe a slabber attachment.   

the only recomendation I have is the same with any mill  BUY ALL THE HP YOU CAN AFFORD.  I'd skip some of the extras and buy more hp up front and then go back and pick up the attachments later.  We cut some 6" hedge boards and I'm real glad for the extra hp.

I have no financial  commitments  to Peterson's I'm just a happy customer

Tom

[Wife]

Welcome lawyer_sawyer. Please keep with this thread, and ignore the "bumps" that happen now and again. Generally, mill owners and company owners get on very well here, as there are usually great benefits from both sides. As the CEO of Petersons Global, I feel my position is to assist sawmill owners to get the best out of their sawmills, irregardless of the brand. Once you have the sawdustitis bug, it doesn't matter where you got it from! It matters that you enjoy what you are doing. So my staff and I are here for any questions you may have.

And I will leave the personal comparisons on each machine's abilities, to the real owners who give real feedback. To that end, thank you so far to Fla_Deadheader and Part_timer - your feedback is greatly appreciated by many, as well as us!

[Arthur]

    Like FDH, I thought you owned the EcoSaw company, but in this 'quote' you seem to come on like you are just a real satisfied 'buyer'.  Hmmmm?  I guess you should be 'satisfied' if you own the company that made the saw you 'bought'.  Did you get a real good deal on it     Is this a hidden sales pitch? Or does it just appear that way?  Sorry, but your original posts indicate you 'are' EcoSaw.

Haven't heard from any EcoSaw owners yet on what they think of the EcoSaw.  Maybe I missed that somewhere, and I can be led there.. 
Maybe........

real satisfied owner of an EcoSaw 4 years before buying the company.  I paid FULL retail price with ALL the additional components and bits that could be supplied.  I got everything I could. Multi catch, Slabbing attachment, sanding attachment. leg extentions, rail extention, full toolbox and the certified training supplied by Queensland Univeristy.

The owner of EcoSaw approached me as I beleive the the philosophy of the company and promoted the EcoSaw for years before I even bought one.  Graeme only sold the company due to injury to his arms during an industrial accident.  He wanted the company to continue as he also beleives in it so asked me to buy even though he had many other offers at a greater return to him.

Like they say 'I liked the product so much I bought the company'.

I posted and answered relevant to the posted question.

Now if Jeff would allow a sales pitch Id be happy to comply.  Best you email and request one.

EcoSaw originaly Lewisaw was started 17 years ago.  I stated here the reason I bought a swinger and the make I bought as an owner of a swinger.  I still mill whenever possible with it but have found that the company takes most of my time.  With D&L Doublecut now manufacturing most of the mills sold I hope to have more time to get back to milling.

I have 2 cabins and a shop to build so have many hours of milling to look forward to.

1. What brand do you have and why did you choose it?
2. If you had it to do again would you do it the same ?
3. If you had any recommendations to people looking at swing blades what might they be?

I do believe that these where the original question???  I didnt answer them fully as that would have been a sales pitch. 

arthur

PS most EcoSaw owners live in PNG or extreamly remote areas with no access to even phones so you wont see many on the FF although they will be coming.

[lawyer_sawyer]

Thank you all for your answers and please for those who haven't had a chance to answer please keep them coming.

Tom Thank you for your advice on watching for sales pitches  .  My undergraduate degree is in Marketing/Sales and so I am a little cynical about what all people say in regards to things they personally use.  I believe everything that is said I just tend to take it with a grain of salt.  but thank you again.

Wife Thank you for your response.  It is nice to see that your company is there for all people who run swing blades.

I had not read much on the EcoSaw so that is another saw for me to read up on.   

If I could focus my questions with another question.
If I was to compare the ability of a Bandmill and a Swing Blade what could I do with one and not the other.  I mean by this that If I was to buy a SwingBlade what cut or advantage would I be sacrificing by not buying a Bandmill.  Is it speed, waste, variety, size.  Please any answers would be appreciated.

[lawyer_sawyer]

I guess I have read some on the Eco Saw but I couldn't remember where so I will be looking at it again on the D&L site.  thanks again for all the answers

[Ianab]

If I could focus my questions with another question.
If I was to compare the ability of a Bandmill and a Swing Blade what could I do with one and not the other.  I mean by this that If I was to buy a SwingBlade what cut or advantage would I be sacrificing by not buying a Bandmill.  Is it speed, waste, variety, size.  Please any answers would be appreciated

At that point we have to ask... what are you going to be sawing?
If it's nice tidy 12" hardwood logs then a bandmill may well be a better option. The swingblade will cut them OK, just not with the clear advantage it has if you are wanting to cut 48" dia softwood into 4x2s. Had a chance to look at some different mills at the local fieldays, there were only 2 bandsaws there out of about 12 mills. Mostly due to the big ugly logs we normally get to play with. The Lucas and Mahoe mills were cutting knobby Mac Cypress logs like I normally get to play with.. with no problems. The LT40 would have struggled with them, and the LT 15 would have been squashed...

The swingblades generally offer better 'bang for the buck' if you are sawing larger logs. Also if you are comparing a fully hydralic bandsaw you have to compare it to a fully Auto swingblade which is a very impressive beast.

Cheers

Ian

Disclaimer -  I own an older model Peterson but have no shares in the company  

[TN_man]

1. My son has a Peterson ATS 827, which he choose over the Lucas because he felt that they were better made and engineered.
2. We would probably get the WPF for the ease of getting logs in and set on the bunks and the increased speed, but he did not have enough money to afford the difference.
3. I would recommend looking at your market. What are you trying to cut? Swingblades excel on the the large logs but are not very efficient on the small logs, in my opinion. They are very simple to operate and make very nice lumber (most customers comment on the clean straight cuts). They can wear you out by the end of a long day.
Comparision- I own a Woodmizer and my son owns the Peterson so I see the differences side by side.
The band mill is easier to cut for grade and is easier to load logs on to. With the Peterson we can spend as much time loading logs as we can cutting them. We can cut very quickly and not jepordize the quality of the lumber with the Peterson but have a hard time keeping the logs coming as quick. We have got where we use the the Peterson on all the large logs(18'' or above) and the Woodmizer on all the small logs. We put the Peterson in the back of the truck and pull the Woodmizer along to go on to custom jobs. Each mill has its niche.

[brdmkr]

I have never used a band mill, but I have watched them work.  I must agree that I spend as much, if not more, time getting logs into position than I do cutting.  Once I am cutting, I think the swing mill is considerably faster than a band mill.  You can also cut wider boards with a band mill, but you can saw larger logs with the swing blade.  If I were rich, I'd buy both

[Part_Timer]

Try getting a hold of woodbeard.  I think he just switched from a swing mill to a band mill. One of the big reasons for me was I don't have to take the chainsaw and quater big logs to get them to fit on the LT15 anymore. We don't have a skid steer or tractor so rolling/loading quaters was a pain.

[Ernie]

This is a similar post that might interest you

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=13293.0

[Arthur]

TN_man hit the nail on the head.

Both band and swingers have their place.  If you have the money and the milling requirements both would be nice with a scrag mill and an edger as well.

To get the most out of value adding you sould also have some sort of kiln and dressing facilities.  Taking the log to the finished product and cutting out the middle men.

All depends on what you want out of milling!!!

You will find that when the bug gets you the 'Home Improvements' effect happens.

arthur

[Captain]

No sales pitch from me 

I'll answer your technical questions, however 

Captain

[Jeff]

yer da man captain.

[woodbeard]

When I got my Peterson, I was choosing between it, a Lucas, and the Brand X sawmill.
 The Brand X is another swingblade type mill worth mentioning here. Here's a link to their site: www.brandxsawmills.com  I was leaning towards the X, but at that time he did not have a portable version. I think I mainly liked the fact that it is American made, and comes with log bunks with dogs.
 My interest in the Lucas was mainly the price- I could afford a new one, and pick it up from Bailey's here in TN. But I really did not like the two point raising system, and having to turn the whole carriage around to make a double cut.
 So, I kept a vigilant eye out for a used Peterson and eventually found one. I got a lot of good use out of it, mostly stationary, mobile a few times. It is indeed portable, and can be packed pretty far into the woods if necessary, but it is a lot of work to move.
This thread contains the reasons I eventually decided to get a bandmill:
http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=13389.0
I still think the Peterson is a great saw, and I'm glad I had the experience of running it, It was a good way for me to get into the sawing addic.. umm I mean business.  

[NZJake]

Gidday Lawyer sawyer,

I'll give you some of my thoughts... If you take your time and edge really well, a bandsaw should beat a circular on recovery, its most upfront advantage would have to be thinkerf and the abillity to cut wide boards, some people say they prefer the band finish also, straight lines accross the board rather then little arcs ( I like the arcs). I can also see some advantages to being trailerised, set up time is reduced (could someone clarify to me how long it takes you guys to set up your trailerised mills? I'm thinking, unhitching, levellers and whatever else you have to do for a typical job?). Ussually takes anywhere from 10mins-40mins to setup a swinger depending on the model ie fully automatic or basic. I can see having hydraulics for a bandsaw as being important, turning, dogging and levelling your log, I would consider these little toys to be fun to use also having advantage.

Having used a bandsaw at one of our overseas agents shop I felt that it was very difficult to cut to order, the customer was requesting an array of sized boards, I found it very hard to calculate for kerf-flip-clamp-rotate for variating sized boards, however I did get a very good handle on things when shooting for the same sized stock. Simplicity of operation is what I am getting at, I feel that operation is simpler on a swinger. Another thing I noted was the incredible tension release from squaring up a log, the swingblade differs in it's principle of cut in that it eats away at tensioned logs bit by bit reskimming as it goes, this too I feel is definately an advantage. I like the abillity to put the swinger on the back of your truck deck saving your trailer for timber at the end of the day. I'm not going to get into any depth here I just thought I might throw in a few ideas as I feel you have asked a very genuine question in regard to the difference of a band to a swingsaw. 

Before I get 'busted out' I better mention that I'm a fellow Peterson, although I believe myself to be a fully qualified sawyer  . Felled my first 'big' trees just the other weekend, gets the old heart pumping when you start to hear the crack (thats gotta mean I'm a genuine feller right? ).

[Part_Timer]

Hay Jake

define "big tree"

Where's the pictures?


Tom

[Arthur]

jake
 
If you combine an edger with your bandsaw you can get a very high recovery if the log is uniform.  I find that in Australia a good portion of logs are not uniform and get a better recovery by swingers.

very much swings and roundabouts.  If you have the milling requirements and the cashflow to allow it both are the best option.

having said that we have supplied to a number of traditional mills that due to new regulations can no longer rip the big logs down manually with a chainsaw so all they do is use an adapted slabbing mill to cut the log in half and then process it through their normal system.  Its a waste of the swingers capacity but its what they have and the way they want to work so cant convince them of the benefit of using a proper swinger.

you might find those with big bandsaws that have even bigger logs might use a swinger frame in the same manner.

easy modification to make to the slabbing device.  You just need to have it adjustable to the maximum depth cut you need for the bandmill.  If the bandmill can do 14" then thats the depth cut you need.

arthur

[pigman]

NZ Jake asked "could someone clarify to me how long it takes you guys to set up your trailerised mills? I'm thinking, unhitching, levellers and whatever else you have to do for a typical job?)."
On most job sites I can be ready to saw in 10 minutes. On steep ground I have taken 30 minutes or longer to set up to saw. I run a Wood-Miser 40hd.

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Takes us about 30 minutes to set up with Homey.

[Minnesota_boy]

If I don't stop to BS with the customer, I can have a log loaded and ready to saw 5 minutes after I unhook from the truck.  LT40HD

[johncinquo]

LS- I say we find a current owner with each, go for a visit and demo, and have a great fall road trip!  I bet we can find em right here in MI without having to leave the state. 

[Part_Timer]

We're not in your state but we are setting up at a fund raiser for a school house restoration this Saturday.  I'm going to cut some 2x7 for the school house project.  If you would like to come you'r more than welcome..


Tom

[sigidi]

Lawyer-Sawyer,

have you had your q's answered?

Sorry I've been away for awhile and have not been on for a while - too long by the feel of it.

drop a response in if you still have q's I'll be watching this space.

Just fyi a very happy Lucas non-commisioned owner.

[lawyer_sawyer]

Thank you all again.
I have been away from here for a little while and just wanted to respond briefly.
Sigidi.  I am sorting through the information that I have recieved both here and the information from the companies.my questions still stand though and would love to have your insight.  If there are reasons to get a swingblade that made a big difference to you I would like to hear them as well as all the reasons for the brand that you got.  Reading the marketing info for each product is one thing but human opinion oftentimes is much easier to understand. 

Johncinquo - I am up for the trip but classes keep sucking me back into Ann Arbor.  As soon as possible I do want to go on site and see the saws operate next to each other. 

As to brands I think the sponors all have great saws for different niches.  If anyone has further information I would enjoy hearing it.

[sigidi]

1. Brand and why
Lucas 618, I primarily bought the 618 due to not being sure how much 8” stuff I would be required to cut, also not being sure how I would hold up (after a pretty severe work accident) to handling the bigger equipment. I was always going to be mobile and I felt the extra weight to be a thing I didn’t want to risk. I have a pretty badly injured right leg, but now I find the walking  behind the mill, is actually better for me, than becoming a architect/drafter. I wanted a mill since I first saw one 5 years ago, it just took me 4 years to get one, even though I’ve been cutting in my dreams plus eating and sleeping milling for that 4 years of limbo.
Choice between, what I thought at the time, the two mills available Lucas and Peterson The Lucas video portrayed an easier machine, the Peterson video showed two fella’s setting the machine up and one of them straining while he did it – I was also always to be working on my own. I have now since found out in the  Peterson video, they where using heavier/longer section tracks and thus the two fella set-up. Power was a second concern between the two machines, I just couldn’t understand how a 13hp would do the same job as a 25hp. Peterson’s entry 8” was driven by 13hp and Lucas entry 8” driven by 25hp and lastly, I felt at the time that for me there was a huge saftey concern in taking guards off the machine. I have spoken to Peterson about this and the other things I have mentioned, since I bought my machine and feel that maybe some of my reasoning to exclude Peterson, could have been as simple as requiring better communication??
Lawyer Sawyer I have to say I bought my Lucas and made my choice against Peterson, without ever trying either machine for myself. One would assume for the $’s a fella would at least try it if he could, well to be truthfull I had the $’s at the time and wanted to cut timber,

2. Would I do it the same – buy the same mill?
I would definitely buy the 827 and even get the 9”cut, maybe also buy the dedicated slabber rather than attachment, it is downtime which I don’t feel right to pass onto customers in the time to fit the attachment, although it has produced some glorious timber.
3. Recommendations
Remember the mill shines the most with big logs (18”+), but that doesn’t mean you can’t do small logs (12” or less) also big section timber is heavy, moving logs around is hard work, often times it has worked out easier to move the mill rather than the log. If you are building a 400 square metre house, you need a HUGE pile of logs.

Sorry for the length of reply, but I just love sawmilling, let me know if you need/are up to handling more

[lawyer_sawyer]

Sigidi thanks for your response.
I would love to hear all you have to say on your experiences and especially those tools or features that help you the most.  I am unsure if I will be sawing alone or with help in the future so any information on that is huge.

I would also like to hear from other swing blade owners if there are any specific features their saws have that they don't believe other saws have that helped make their choice for them on the brand to buy.

[woodsteach]

I picked the BrandX sawmill for several reasons and here are some of them:
1.  American Made
2. I get to go to NW Montana to pick it up and have Jay teach me how to opperate it.
3.  I liked the idea of the swing mill on a heavy track system.  Like a band mill
4.  Jay was great to work with.  (although I must give the peterson folks a large tip of the hat here also, they have great customer service also)
5.  Jay custom builds each one and since I am a south paw he is setting it up accordingly.


I'll let you all  know more in 4 weeks when I get to go pick it up and if the boss lets me get a digial camera you might get to see some pix of Jay's set up.

disclaimer:    I am not compensated in any way from Brand X.

Woodsteach

[DonE911]

lawyer-sawyer

I just got my swing mill.  I bought a Peterson 10" WPF.  I started out just looking at a 6" mill thinking thats all I really needed....  then I got to thinking that softwood rafters/joist are going to be at least 8"'s.  I plan on targeting the horse owners market and almost every barn around here has a hay loft.  I decided a 8" made more since than double cutting to get a 2x8 for joist and rafters.

I got the 10" because it was close to me, the price was right, it was comming with lots of extra's and that I was buying it from a FF member.  If it had been an 8" I would have still gotten it, but bigger is better in some cases..... I like the fact that I can now cut a 2x10 ( thats the joist that are going in my barn ) without double cutting.  I do see the need for double cutting for wider boards, but it's nice not to have to do it up to 10"'s.

I chose a Peterson over Lucas although I admittedly didn't look much at the others.  I didn't like the raising method on the lucas and I did like the all stainless and aluminum of the Peterson.  Peterson's customer service has been the best I have ever dealt with.  The only drawback was the delivery time from NZ.  I bought a used mill so that wasn't really an issue, but I would have waited for the shipping to get what I wanted.  Alot of buyers may not do that.... Americans want to have things "right now"... thats why car dealerships stock so many cars.  I understand there is at least one mill here in the states in the care of a Peterson Regional rep.  This can only be a good thing and if Peterson is able to get a few more new mills here in the states for new buyers, the shipping delay ( customs ect ) will not be an issue.  I would feel much better going to get my mill ( or having it delivered by )from a miller and not a salesman... someone that understands the machine and will show me how to use it without trying to force a sales pitch down my neck and doesn't have to any dealing with the $$.

I've only had it a few days, but the smile is still on my face.....  I have learned that setup is not difficult, I made a few mistakes the first time that I will not make from this point out.  The rails are aluminum, but not that the cheapy thin stuff....  they are a sturdy thick aluminum and the sections can be moved by one person... with 2 sections bolted together I can not carry them alone... I'm 5'11 and 190 lbs and the length is the issue for me, not the weight.  No problem.... I just put them together in place.   At this time I feel I have made the correct call by going with a swinger over a bandmill.  I still have my Logosol M7 for cutting little logs, although I may sell that off and get a small bandmill to handle the little logs some day if the swinger doesn't do what I want.  I'm betting that when properly dogged the smaller stuff wont be an issue on the swinger.

I have only cut one small log ( it was a firewood log to be honest ) and the lumber came out straight and true... I have to admit it's not sized correctly, but for the first attempt and not understanding the scales (Chris showed me how they work, but I forgot by the time I got home) I'm very happy.  I also like the sawdust it creates much better... I know how that sounds, but the dust is much coarser as compared to my chainsaw mill.  The coarser dust is perfect for stall bedding... remember the horses?  It will be easier to spread on the pastures with a small spreader and it's heavy enough not to blow around in the wind.  There are several good sized stables around me and I don't think I'll have any problem selling them the sawdust. I have given each owner a little dust  ( 45 gallon bags for free ) and they did complain about the shavings they already use because they jam up the small manure speaders they use and they don't decompose fast enough. You can see all the small shaving's and chips laying on the pastures.... I'd worry about my horse eating them while on pasture.

This has been pretty long so I'll stop here, but if there is anything you want to know that I can answer please feel free to ask..... I may not know the answer yet, but if you buy a mill, you'll be in my shoes one day, so maybe now is a good time to ask.

[sigidi]

I would love to hear all you have to say on your experiences and especially those tools or features that help you the most. I am unsure if I will be sawing alone or with help in the future so any information on that is huge.

I can just hear Wifey now "He didn't really mean he wants to hear ALL you have to say" I have found a way of setting up which works great for me as a single operator, also moving the mill if required. I'd say that most the Lucas users would do it pretty much the same way. If I have help around and need to move the mill I pick it up in one piece, I take the carriage off, but the end frames and tracks all move together. I shove two 3"x1.5" sticks under the intersection of the track extensions and the main track, then the two of us walk off with it. It helps if the end frames are not right at the end of the main track otherwise you keep hitting your legs on them. Then if the log is already in place to mill, we drop it beside the log then slide it over the top of the log. Pretty quick but also needs to have another fella there. If I'm moving on my own I break it down to four peices, the two tracks (with or without extensions) and the two end frames. Probably nothing new to Lucas owners .

I mention moving the mill, as often I should have moved the mill rather than the log, but have been caught in a mindset of leaving the mill in one place. I don't like the downtime of moving the mill and the lack of boards at the end of the day.

I feel the biggest challenge I have with using a swinger is efficient log handling and lining up. I would love to have some machinery, ideally an ex-Army Mack crane truck. (as I know them first hand - 5 years service in a transport squadron) The crane truck would be a terrific tool/feature which would help the most. Any log I have got to mill so far, it would move. Also their off-road capacity would be terrific to get logs which most just have to leave behind. I know that not many of us have the cash flow to manage that, especially me, but for the time being I use a home made cant hook and an iron bar (the iron bar I need to have hardened or something as it bends too often) These two tools are the best help to me.

Also a good set of log supports is a must I feel, they get the log off the ground (means you can recover more) and hold it in place to allow maximum recovery with mimimum vibration. I get a bit serious about the log supports and screw in the blocks holding the log for each new log, this maybe overkill, but it has let me recover some pretty good amounts out of logs and I have't lost one yet.

More to come if you want it - but I can just hear Wifey saying "you talk about milling all the time!!"

[arnold]

This thread is one of those damned if you do and damned if you don't.
Bandsaws have their place on small logs and outshine swingblades, to cut big logs you just can't go past a swing. One must not forget that when you put a chainsaw to breakdown a large log you must factor the woodchip loss of good timber, and as well the correction skim as another loss. The other issue is sharpening and retensioning of bands. You need to be very good at or one needs to purchase the right gear to do that.
The issue of lucas having two winches on their mill is that you can set up to suit the taper of a log and not have to spend more downtime jacking logs.
The lucas  tracks are one piece and don't get that sagg when you have jointed tracks.
I have not bought the company But do sell Lucas in new Zealand and the pacific. I operate an 827 on a daily basis. The mill sits in one position and feed it with a loader. The cut sizes vary and the eucalyptus logs are converted onto rail ties 8x4 and 6x4, 8ft long at an average daily output of 4200 bft (7hrs).
The log weights are anywhere from 5 ton to 18 ton at 17ft. As I am so used to doing large logs I have not been able to consider a bandmill for this purpose, however when I do the more valuable species I billet cut and send to a bandmill operator.
As for the comparisions between swingblades the results from the last two shootouts in the USA speak for themselves.
When I get the hang of it I will put some pics of logs etc.

[Captain]

Careful on the shootout results Arnold.

The Peterson time was actually mathematically faster than Lucas, less miscuts.  Do a calculation based on the log lot size and time to cut.

As for the miscuts as judged, they were caused by a new sizing decal that was out of spec.  The first one I had ever seen.  Several forum members were on hand to see the miscuts judged, and I'll let them render their opinion.  I realized after the dust had settled what had happened.  I was a little disappointed that the BF lost to miscuts was not included in the writeup as in previous Shootout Reports.  Some have the impression that out low recovery was all sawdust.

Captain

[Jeff]

Arnold, please keep your comments restricted to the mill you represent. I will not have another situation here where one brand is trying to one up the other. We went down that road once. We are pleased and eager to have you tell us about what your mill can do, but as a distributer, I cant have you telling us what "the others can't do"

Thanks.

Forestry Forum Administration

[crtreedude]

Jeff,

I have a solution - all manufactors of sawmills can send me one of each of their models. I promise to test them out thoroughly - for years and years if need be.  I promise regular status reports.

This way an impartial third party can state how each one works.

Do I have any takers? I promise not to charge for the testing like I do in software. You manufactors should be happy. 

[DonE911]

crtreedude has a good point.....

now all good test are verified by more than one source.....

I know it would be difficult, but I'm sure all the FF members would be willing to participate.

While we are at it.... the timber industry should provide free logs to each testing facility (members) so we could evaluate the quality of each product accurately.

[crtreedude]

Don,

I have ran QA departments before, therefore I am obviously qualified. Also, just think - if they can ship them here, they can ship them anywhere.

What concerns me is that all the manufactors have become very quiet all of a sudden... Surely marketing can pay to send me a few...

[Furby]

Well since I have a background in QA, I think I'm in the game for this. Add my name to the list!

[DonE911]

QA ... yeah I guess that is a minor qualification......    but..

I ran the busiest complaint department that I can think of for more than 15 years.....   you think people call 911 because they are happy.... or they don't want some immediate service..

[doublecut]

We are going to try and have One of our Doublecut models there for the shoot out next year. But have to see when the time comes.
I agree with captain on the miscuts. Just because they are out a bit the board wouldn't be thrown away! So I think that the reader reading the article could come to a wrong idea of the mill with out that talley as well.
I think that should be changed for sure.
doublecut

[crtreedude]

Furby and Don, here we are with a really good suggestion, non-biased, fair to all parties, willing to donate valuable time and resources to independent testing - and we are being ignored.

Boy, you would think they don't trust us or something... 

[Jeff]

Yer not being ignored, I made ya invisible and inserted all my contact info in place of yours.


  Phone still aint rang.

[crtreedude]

See - this is a danger of discussing a good idea on the internet... 

I would love to see if a woodmizer can cut a Corteza without whimpering. For that matter, a swing blade is going to be interesting too with some of these trees. It is like cutting metal. 

And teak is like cutting sand - lots of silicone.

See Jeff, I have more to test. However, I will let you test the fully automated ones so that you don't hurt yourself. I have people to move logs around for me.

I think we can divide them up pretty quick, all we need to do is get the manufactors to agree. 

[DonE911]

Jeff..... the phone aint ring'n cuzz it aint hooked up.. unless you fixed it so they could call ya:o

Maybe the manufactures should go ahead and send them all to CR.  They can provide the rest of the members plane tickets to go there and play with ( I mean evaluate ) the mills.

crtreedude:  when I get there I wanna see that volcano up close and do some snook fish'n okay?? Harold says you are a good host.    so good in fact.... he wants to move there.

[crtreedude]

Man, you don't want to see that volcano too up close - or they will be calling 911 for you!

You come on down and we will go fishing, it is about the only way I take a break down here is to have visitors. 

[Jeff]

Jeff..... the phone aint ring'n cuzz it aint hooked up.. unless you fixed it so they could call ya:o

Durn, thats right.  Well, I'll send em all a note with my cell number.

[DonE911]

Well not to close... maybe as close as that pic you posted a while back. 

That's one thing I miss about south FL... I miss the fishing.   The "big" fish up here are still smaller than I'm used to using for bait.

Maybe some day I can get down there...  I'd like to, but I've got all these domestic duties still.. you know... 3 kids still at home.   

[lawyer_sawyer]

I happen to agree with all of you that free equipment would be awesome.  I am sure I would have an easier time trying to figure out the differences in the machines out there.

Thank you to all who have given great opinions.  If anyone else has more information please keep sending it.


and for all whose wifes say I don't want to hear it all just ignore them and send it my way.

Thanks again.

[Fla._Deadheader]

  What have ya gleaned, so far, from all this nonsense

[Tom]

Fred, the problem is that you are at such a disadvantage in the elevation department.  They are probaby concerned that you can't reach the controls.



Get Hector to squat down
a little bit the next time
he takes your picture.  

[Fla._Deadheader]

 That's Fred's backyard.    Right below where I stay, when I visit with him and Amy, when I'm in the city.   

  Ya otter hear all the critters what jump off the trees and land on the roof, ALL NIGHT LONG. Plastic roof, no less. Looks like that corrugated tin only plastic. Neat stuff.

[crtreedude]

Are you saying I am too tall? I happen to be 6'2", makes me look like a giant down here.  It is trick photography that makes me look short...

Yep, no need for anthing more than a tin roof around here - no heating or cooling to worry about.

[Tom]

What about the elepants?   Does the plastic hold'em?

[DonE911]

Lawyer.... sorry we have run off with this post to some degree...

cr are you saying you don't need the heating or cooling... or ...  no need to worry about what you aint got??

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Don't tell 'em, Fred   Don't tell 'em

[Arthur]

cr

glad to lend you a mill for a while for product and timber evaluation.  need to know what type of wood and sizes you want to mill so you get the right one for the job.  The main spec is for the type of blades supplied.

How portable do you need it???

etc,etc,etc.

easy to ship to your local port but how do we get it to you from there???

Do you have a camp site for all the FF visitors???

arthur

[crtreedude]

We don't need no stinking heating and cooling - we is tough!

(Our temperature only changes a few degrees year round - where we live the high for the day is about 78 degrees F, gets down to about 65 by the morning. I know you feel for us and our weather...)

No hurricanes either!

Sorry for hijacking thread...

The weird thing is I never know what month it is unless I look at a calendar. Honest. We are heading up to the home country (the USA) for a visit to relatives in October - I know I am going to freeze.

Stress testing for temperature extremes will have to be done up at Jeff's.

[Arthur]

cr

you will need to install a deep freeze unit for Lindsay. 

arthur

[crtreedude]

Arthur, no problem at all getting from the port - Limon is only three hours away.

We will definitely be buying a mill eventually - and Harold is bringing down a Peterson.

We have smaller logs - sometimes about 10" and then we have monsters - like 5' in diameter. Most everything is hardwood - and then it gets harder.

Teak is really hard on blades, so a sharpener is critical.  Some of the densities go up to 1.20, but usually they are between 0.5 and 0.7

Portability is important of course but durability to tropical conditions is a must. We do have a place to keep it out of the elements.

And yes, we have a very large campsite for visitors - you all come, and I provide the chicharrones.  Perhaps we need to have a Winter piggy roast in Costa Rica.  Jeff, I promise to fly you and Tammy down so you can MC it.

Someone has to keep Harold out of trouble...

[Fla._Deadheader]

 %)(*^$%^__)^*(&*+((&&%&


  Rodney

[crtreedude]

FDH - you should be happy you keep someone employed... 

[Arthur]

cr

no problem with tropical conditions, the EcoSaw is well proven and you only need a cover for the engine although most are never covered.

will orgainize something for you once we get the next few months of panic out of the way.

arthur

[submarinesailor]

I WANT TO GO/Volunteer.

[DonE911]

78 to 65 year round??  I thought there would be a little more swing than that....   maybe I could get my wife down there in CR....  oh wait... she wont go unless there are bears there... she wants bears...

Maybe we could import some.... 

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Just get Fred riled. 

[Jeff]

78 to 65 year round??  I thought there would be a little more swing than that....   maybe I could get my wife down there in CR....  oh wait... she wont go unless there are bears there... she wants bears...

Maybe we could import some.... 

THey got bears, but they aint got no feet, grow scales and have venom.

[doublecut]

cr
We are setting up a plant in Sanjose and a store front for the ecosaw. How far is that from you? My dad has been to costa Rica and loved it .Says it is one place to visit. I should be down there in the next few months to set everything up with my partner Ty wilkinson. Looking forward to come down. Can we commision you to be our tour guide?
It might be cold in the winter where I live but there aint no snakes! The way i like it.
doublecut

[arnold]

Captan.
          I still don't know the results from the shootout this year . I have been away for almost two months and understood from an earlier comment from you that you had done well.  I neither praised or criticised either brands but merely figured that the results would have helped.
No doubt this is not the case and leave the matter at that.

[crtreedude]

doublecut,

San Jose is about 2 hours away, not a bad trip. We have to go to the big city about every couple of months.  If you need some contacts in the city, let me know. Up our way is where most of the trees are on the plantations - here and Guanacaste.  If you need a rep out this way, we could talk. There isn't a whole lot of trees in the Central Valley. ;-) It is not a bad idea to have a store in San Jose though.

As far as being a tour guide, I can do much better than me. I'll spend some time with you in the Northern Zone, but as Harold found out when he was down here, I work nearly all the time.

However, we have a pretty good group of people here - and growing. And, of course everyone of them has brothers, sisters, cousins, etc. We can easily find someone to be a guide for you.

Don,

The meaning of the tropics is that there is almost no swing. The days and the nights are almost exactly the same length. The beaches are a little warm for me (about 90) and down in the lowlands is about 85 as a high. We are in the mountains at 2,000 feet. Perfect for us, a little warm for some people. The Central Valley (San Jose) is about 3,000 feet to 5,000 feet. The high in the Central Valley stays pretty close to the low 70s.

As far as snakes, I have only seen 3 here so far. Unless you go bushwacking on the fincas, you probably will never see one. Most people don't.

Jeff, we have bears here. Oso is bear in spanish.

Oso Hormiguero = Bear of the ant hills (anteater)
Oso Caballo = Horse Bear (Giant Anteater)

How about a Jaguar, Tapir or Panther? Costa Rica is one of the most biologically diverse places in the world.

[crtreedude]

FDH,

I resemble that remark! 

[oakiemac]

Lawyer Sawyer, John and anyone else that is in southern Michigan-

I'm not going to get into the debate because I don't know enough about the different swing blade mills. I do own and operate a Mobile Dimension saw that is a little different then swing blades but has some of the same advantages. My saw has three blades and can cut horizontally and vertically. I am in no way making a pitch for MD, but if anyone wants to take a road trip (I'm about 2 hours west of Ann Arbor) then I would certainly be willing to show you how my mill works.
Once again, I dont know if it is any better or worse then band mills or swing blade mill but it is a different way of doing things and is working for me. Just let me know if  you would like to come out and see it.

[DonE911]

oakie.... so only the michigan guys are invited huh??   

Snakes:   I personally don't care about them as long as they are doing their job and not bothering my wife who is pet-ri-fied of them.  My oldest son will catch any snake he finds.... venom or not. I try to tell him how stupid that is, but I did the same thing when I was a kid.

[crtreedude]

Visiting a person who is experienced with a particular brand of saw is a great idea. One, you get to see the saw used by a person who knows what he is doing and you will also decide if it is really what you want to do.

A band mills is a little complicated for me (I know, I know, I can learn it) so the swing blades appeal - not that I wouldn't give a WoodMizer a good testing... ;-)

One thing that is clear from this thread is that what you are going to use it for is very important. So, perhaps also checking out the list of sawyers in your area might be a good idea and see if anyone of them is sawing the same kind of stuff you are planning on.

I want a swing blade for salvaging trees on the plantations - but I will probably end up with a bandsaw for smaller stuff when we starting doing thinnings. Since we have thousands of trees to process, it makes sense to have the right machine for the job.

Of course, I don't get to use any of this - my business partner has all the fun.  Harold is coming down to start cutting for us with the Peterson and to get himself established. Should be fun once he stops playing around in Florida... 

Whatcha doing FDH - waiting for another hurricane??? 

[DonE911]

FDH is just giv'n ya more time to grow your tree's

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Just drove through San Jose, ALL day today, TWICE. People around Kissimmee and Disney drive just like San Jose people. I pulled a load (WAAYYY to big) of Pecky Cypress Beams back from Ellmoe's place.

  Lets see, 212 linear ft of 6 X 12's = 1272 ft of WET beams. Then, it poured rain most of the way home. Trailer has no brakes    Thought Jeff might take notice of that. 

[oakiemac]

Yep only Michiganders