Bandmill and Mobile Dimension mill

[lawyer_sawyer]

A friend of mine who refuses to use the internet has asked me to post this question   

He currently is running a Bandmill part time for himself and just a few customers and is frustrated some time at the rate with which he makes dimensional lumber for his own and other people's construction projects as he doesn't have much time to do this sideline business. 

He was wondering if it made sense to run both a bandmill and a mobile dimension mill (he mentioned Lucas) if he were to shift more energy from his full time job to custom sawing.  Much of the lumber would not go into buildings that would be described as residences but rather as storage or non habitant uses.

The cost in this matter is not a hang up for him.  He was curious if he would be able to make more of a particularly demanded product quicker and if anyone has any ideas about this type of business which might be described as having more saws than one person can run 

Any and all responses would be great and thank you

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Need more info. What kind of bandmill, manual, power feed, log turner, log loader   The more of these things, the faster he can produce, with GOOD help.

  A swinger (Lucas--Peterson, etc.)  is labor intensive when loading logs. A helper would add a lot to production. 

  An MD, would be more along his lines, if he has good support equipment, loader , forklift, something like that.

[lawyer_sawyer]

Thank you Fla. D
I was passing on what I had been asked but I didn't know Lucas was not a Mobile dimension Mill.  There was no intent to mislead anybody.  His mill is a Baker.  I do not know model or size but it has hydraulics for loading and lifting and flipping.  his support equipment is a 40hp tractor with hyd. that he uses to stage his logs when working at his place. he doesn't have an edger and does most of the work by himself except when helping friends they do help.....

I am curious what would constitute the difference between swinger and mobile dimension mill and who makes what.  I have had a summer where I have not been able to read on here or do any research and so i must restart my education on sawing and my hope to do it someday.

[Fla._Deadheader]

 No problem with deception. I was not inferring anything along that line. 

  Quicker than my 2 finger typing, go to the left side of any page here. You will find Peterson and Lucas, as Swingers. Also, Mobile Dimension. They are all Sponsors here. 

[woodbeard]

The swingblade mills will definitely produce dimensional lumber pretty quickly. How much quicker is hard to say without knowing what mill he has now. But if he has been running a hydraulic mill, he may also get frustrated with doing everything manually. I am currently getting myself spoiled in such a fashion.   Also, if he frequently cuts stock over 8" wide, that will slow things down again unless he gets the 10"cut Peterson, or a Mobile Dimension type mill.

[Jeff]

Deadheader, to clarify, Mobile dimension is NOT a sponsor here in fact, never has been and refuses to be.

[crtreedude]

Makes you wonder about the quality of their saw if they can't figure out they should be part of this fine group.

[DanG]

Just to clarify further, Mobile Dimension Saw is a brand name.  It is a multi-blade dimension mill somewhat like the D&L Doublecut mill that IS a sponsor here.  I am a fan of this type of mill, and I own one.  I don't have an urge to own any other type, if that tell's you anything.  Perhaps I should rephrase that;  I'd like to also have a bandmill and a swinger, but I wouldn't give up my MD for one.  I think the multi-blades give you the most bang for your buck, when you consider the labor issue.  For instance, from what I've seen, a second person will triple the output from a swinger or bandmill, but the second person won't even double the output of the multiblade.

Fred, there's nothing wrong with the saw, just the company.

[crtreedude]

I understand DanG, it is another case of good engineers - bad marketing and sales.

[Fla._Deadheader]

           

  There's 10 lashes. That'll show me, EH

[Frank_Pender]

I guess it is kind of like me, I have 4 sawmills on this Tree Farm.  The opportunity is always there for me to expand and hire help to operate each of the mills and another person to help each operator.   Then I would have to hire a marketing crew, secretries and probably cut down on quality with all the added pressure to produce lumber products.  I might even have to advance into making veneer as there is gestting to be a larger demand for such material.

[Part_Timer]

lawyer_sawyer

I have both a manual band mill and a Peterspon swinger. I like the swinger for cutting qsawn, siding and posts.  it is a lot easier and faster than on the manual mill.

Just my.02

Tom

[oakiemac]

I'm kind of like DanG where I like the multi blade type mill but I am not a fan of the current ownership of the Mobile Dimension company. The guy that originally started the company was a fairly good guy from what I can gather and towards the end of his life he to got frustrated with the way the company was being run so he started making Timber Champ saw mills out of his garage. These where good little mills. A good freind of mine had one and he loved it.

I might put another bug in the ear of the current owner about sponsorship. I can't comprhend why he won't even think about sponsoring. He is a very bad buisness man in my opionion.

[sawmill_john]

Hi Frank, DanG, & oakiemac.  Having worked for MDS, for almost 22 years, (I don't work there any more)and I own a '87 md 128 MDS, I still believe it's one of the best mills out there.  It's true other mills can do things better, but for one mill to cut dimensional lumber efficeintly, with one man, you can't beat it.  I don't have a stake in the business, I know what the machine can do and what it can't.  It all comes down to the operator and machine working togather, one won't run with out the other.  I've seen perfectly good machines turn out cr*p lumber, and I've seen good operators totally baffeled by simple mechanical problems, I liken it to playiing a musical instrument, it does take a certin amount of ability.  That was i big bone of contention, with me, the training and base knowledge was lacking from the instruction process.  Ron (mobile mfg co - owner) has owned the company from the begining, his father in-law, Jim May, was the inventor.  The last few years I didn't see the same drive in him, which lead me to take another job, I didn't feel comfortable with not knowing what was around the corner, plusalot of the older guys were retiring and I didn't have much confidence in the replacements, were that leaves the company, it's hard to say.  Like I said before I have one, and I love it!!!!!

See ya around Frank!!!

[karl]

Well now, there's some info I have thought myself but didn't feel comfortable saying....
I guess it's ok since MD isn't a sponser....
I own an MD and fully agree- great machine, poor company support and product knowledge. Also they seem to have no desire to improve the product.
If I were going to buy new, I would think hard about Mighty Mite for the above reasons and that diesel power is available as well as hydraulic decks.
I have no desire to own a band for anything other than as a resaw.

[sawmill_john]

Karl, Mighty Mite makes some big machines but I have heard simular issues with their customer service, so not always is higher cost a factor of how good the product and customer service is.  Now when I worked at mobile I took great pride in providing the best customer service I could, some times I had no options, but I think if you ask most customers we got parts out the same day most of the time.  And I don't remember how many 1000's of hours I spent on the phone with customers that didn't buy a thing from us,  I felt that an operating machine was the best advertising.  I can't vouch for the current operating procedure. 

[Jeff]

THats the one thing good I will allow myslef to say for mobile dimension, rather could say. They had John. Now they dont. Glad we still do. I wont give up on them. I still say we have done a lot for them for no return. (I know there are thousands of people that now know about them that did not before). Just imagine what we could do for them if we were trying.  They probably spen more on toilet paper or coffee everyday then what sponsoring this forum and supporting thier owners on this forum would cost.

No foresight.

[karl]

John- I agree that parts from MD were/are shipped quickly, but recently knowledge of the machines( at least my 1982 version) seems lacking from the guy I talked with. He had to call me back a couple of times and never really answered my questions.
Maybe I could draw on your knowledge a bit? I'm sure there are others out there that are or will be needing to rebuild their engines too.
Here's the scenario- Engine is tired- low oil pressure, low on HP. Needs a rebuild. I don't want to have it down for more than a couple weeks tops. MD wants me to send them the engine so they can "send it out to see what it needs"( I'm in Vermont- they are in Or.) Folks around here want to know what the modifications are before they touch it, Md can't/won't tell me. Can't see me shipping it off to them without some idea of the possible costs(especially after a $6400.+ quote for a new engine!!!) Seems like $2500 should make this thing better than new.

[oakiemac]

I didn't mean to sound too down on the company. I have always had good response to questions and parts. Sawmill John was my favorite person to talk with but Ron always had  the answers as well. I think their product support is actually pretty good.
What I think is lacking is their product development. Why not come out with a hydraulic system that you can upgrade your mill to? Why not come out with a diesel engine? Why not have things like log decks and debarkers?
Their best advertisement value would definately be sponsoring this forum. I can't fathom why they won't
I still think the sawmill is a good value and good mill.

[DanG]

I agree that they should be signing on as a sponsor, as well as appreciating their employees and taking care of them.  I can't believe they fumbled around and let John get away from them.    However, they are far from being the only outfit to not chip in for the press they've gotten here.

The mill itself is a great piece of engineering, and is extremely durable.  I don't think I'd buy a new one at the current price, but I'm convinced it is the best bargain on the used market.

Karl, I went through the rebuild thing last year.  Do ya got the manuals?  Pick up a Haynes VW manual to go along with it and go for it.  The mods only involve the case, the crank and associated bearings.  MD can supply those.  Everything else is standard VW.  Pick a good machine shop to turn your crank.  I went with a large shop and was real disappointed in the service.  I coulda got a new crank from MD cheaper and a whole lot quicker.   Feel free to ask any questions and I'll try to make up an answer that sounds feasible.

[sawmill_john]

Karl, DanG hit the nail right on the head! all internal parts are VW, the crank is modified(extended on both ends) there is an extrenal bearing that supports the pull of the main belts.  The blocks start out as 1600cc, then they are coupled with a big bore kit that goes 1700cc, or they are machined out to acept a 92mm piston & cylinder kit that displaces 1835cc. some of the blocks use a single relief oil pressure system some use a deul relief system, most engines are equipped with a Bosch distributor & coil.  They built the engines as if they were a type 1 1969 1600cc, so all bearings, rods, every thing internal.  The only thing mobile has you over a barrel for is the crankshaft, everthing else is an off the shelf item.  Noe extrenally thats a different story, blower, shrouding, intake & exhaust every thing is custom, so take care of your saw mill!  Ya I should talk mine is tarped up and hasn't been cranked over for 6 months.  Karl if you need specific info let me know I remember most of the part number but I do have it all down on paper some where, so it might take me a few days to find it.

john

ps Jeff howsit goin, I came across some pictures the other day, from a few years back, at the Escanaba Show, that sure was good weiney soup, thanks again!  I sure miss seein all you guys at the shows, I might just have to hit the oregon logging conference just for old time sakes.

[karl]

Now that's why this site is at the top of my favorites list- good folks being' neighborly.

Thanks Dang and John,  that's what I was lookin' for.

Knowing that the only item I gotta really depend on one company for is the crank makes me a whole bunch more comfortable.

Anyone have a feel for how much more fuel the bigger bore uses? I'm using close to 1.5 gal hr. now with the 1600cc.
 Can I saw enough faster to offset some of the costs with more hp? (sawing spruce, fir,pine- pulling 1x12, 2x4-12 from 14-22 dib x12-18' logs)
How about with the 12 tooth main saw?

John- I can keep that engine warm and dry and exercised if you want... jus' trying to help..

Wish I wus clever enough to come up with a diesel coversion and run it on fryer oil - just imagine - surrounded by sawdust and fries smell- pure heaven...

[DanG]

Karl, I found it easier to get my parts from MD.  They do maintain a database of all the saws out there, and will know exactly what parts you need.  At least that was the case when John was there.  The few things I tried to find locally were hard to come by.

[Frank_Pender]

What are you talking about, Sawmill John, you have not even gotte here in 15 years.     And, your mill has not cfanked over in six months?  You ought to bo noodle whipped.

[DanG]

We otter all get together and buy out MD, then hire Sawmill John to run it.

[sawmill_john]

Franks right! I should be whipped, I seem to keep finding projects, or projects keep finding me.  I still plan to come down and see your operation frank, I know you dion't believe it, but I do!!! And as far as the mill I've got to get it set up to saw up some fir for my new boss, he's taking out some trees and what'd to know what to do with them.  I told him Lets saw em up!  so next month thats just what were doing.
As for the offer, to run mobile at one time I would have jumped at the chance but I tell you what I'm real happy in my new work, but never say never, I guess.  Thanks for the vote of confidence DanG.

john

[Frank_Pender]

  DanG good idea.  I will put in $10,000 right now.

[DanG]

DanG!!  Now I done got myself thinking again!  Wonder how much it'd take? 

[Paul_H]

 

[Kathy]

I'm new and joined to get some information on what my MD sawmill is worth.  MD does not offer any info on used eq but will fax my original receipt so I can see what I paid, etc.  In reading your posts you all seem to know a lot about MD sawmills so thought I would post this.  Thanks for your help

[DanG]

Well HI, Kathy, and welcome to the ForestryForum.   This is the place to get good honest answers, even if the answer is, "I dunno."

Tell us a little about your mill, and we may be able to provide some info.  Also, you can go to    and look for similar rigs to see what they are asking.  Keep in mind that those are asking prices.  When a rig is sold, the actual price paid is not published, as it is by private treaty between the buyer and seller.

I know that MD did some "appraisals" at one time, because they did one on mine.  It ain't necessarily good news, though.  The guy had it advertised for months for $13,500 and didn't sell it.  He got Mobile to appraise it via photos and other data, and they said it was worth $9,000.  He dropped the price to $9500 and I bought it most quick.

Where are you located?  Sometimes that has a bearing on the value, too.

[Frank_Pender]

Welcome, Kathy.  I see you finally got onto the Forum.  I sent you a personal message.  You might want to try the suggestion. 

[beenthere]

Frank
Is an introduction in order here?, as you apparently know new member Kathy     From Chet, we are asking for pictures. From you, .....well just a little background would be great.
Or is there a secret??      

[Frank_Pender]

nO, I do not know her.  She had sent me an e-mail today, asking for help on the value of the mill.   She had indicated that she had, had some problem in getting onto the Forum.   I do not know what was involved with that issue.  I suggested that she might send me the copy of the list about the costs involved in the mill purchase.   I have yet to hear from her; either in the form of the fax or an e-mail.

[Kathy]

Thank you for the replys.  For Chet I've attached a picture in the gallery.  I'm from WA state near Tacoma.  No secrets here.  I just have to learn how to do these things! 

Years ago we ran the sawmill for business and then just it sat on and off up until now.  Things changed, I got the mill and I want to sell it.  My boys are not interested in keeping it.  But I do have a family friend that would like to have it but we do not know the worth.  I will fax over the sheet to Frank today.

Hey...I see my picture made it in the Forum.  I will check tonight after work.  Thanks again. 

[Kathy]

I received the info on my MD sawmill and faxed it over to Frank.  He called and gave me LOTS of useful information information regarding selling the mill.  He thought I should start the selling price at $10,500 and advertise in the Capital Press.  If I don't make a deal with the family friend I will do that.  Thanks for your help Frank

PS I think the problem getting in the Forum was on my part as I am new to this

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Kathy, the more you post the easier it gets. 

[Jeff]

Well Kathy, once you sell that mill, we hope you continue to "Hang Out" with us.  This is a great group of people. THe Forum is much more then just putting a saw to wood or growing trees. Its about friends.   In my opinion, you are now a member of a very special group of folks that I would not trade for anything.

[Tom]

Heck yeah!   Take some time to go back through the older threads in General and you will see a lot of our "carrying on".

[Frank_Pender]

Yep, Kathy, Tom even gets to talking about grit and all kinds of things.  He even knows how much to pay people for working for him, a can of cold peas. 

[Tom]

.....and you'll meet my little instigating' brother and learn all about DanG, the forum cuss word, and Whacks and Pender's teaching experiences and Jeff's trips through the political jungles of Michigan politics, and Bibbymans final days at his "real" job and Arkansawyer's new battle plan where he mortgages his eldest son and the trials and tribulations of a lot of members as they try to make it day to day. 

I dare not mention any more because each one has a story or ten.  You have to keep going back to the beginning to get the real flavor of the place.  This isn't a day-to-day site like many.  It has built itself in 5 years like Egypt's dynasties and Rome conquering the world.   Yep! There is a real education back there. 

[Kathy]

Well I advertised in the Capital Press and have only received 1 phone call.  I e-mailed him pictures.  So I'll see what happens.