Bandmill and Mobile Dimension mill

[lawyer_sawyer]

A friend of mine who refuses to use the internet has asked me to post this question   

He currently is running a Bandmill part time for himself and just a few customers and is frustrated some time at the rate with which he makes dimensional lumber for his own and other people's construction projects as he doesn't have much time to do this sideline business. 

He was wondering if it made sense to run both a bandmill and a mobile dimension mill (he mentioned Lucas) if he were to shift more energy from his full time job to custom sawing.  Much of the lumber would not go into buildings that would be described as residences but rather as storage or non habitant uses.

The cost in this matter is not a hang up for him.  He was curious if he would be able to make more of a particularly demanded product quicker and if anyone has any ideas about this type of business which might be described as having more saws than one person can run 

Any and all responses would be great and thank you

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Need more info. What kind of bandmill, manual, power feed, log turner, log loader   The more of these things, the faster he can produce, with GOOD help.

  A swinger (Lucas--Peterson, etc.)  is labor intensive when loading logs. A helper would add a lot to production. 

  An MD, would be more along his lines, if he has good support equipment, loader , forklift, something like that.

[lawyer_sawyer]

Thank you Fla. D
I was passing on what I had been asked but I didn't know Lucas was not a Mobile dimension Mill.  There was no intent to mislead anybody.  His mill is a Baker.  I do not know model or size but it has hydraulics for loading and lifting and flipping.  his support equipment is a 40hp tractor with hyd. that he uses to stage his logs when working at his place. he doesn't have an edger and does most of the work by himself except when helping friends they do help.....

I am curious what would constitute the difference between swinger and mobile dimension mill and who makes what.  I have had a summer where I have not been able to read on here or do any research and so i must restart my education on sawing and my hope to do it someday.

[Fla._Deadheader]

 No problem with deception. I was not inferring anything along that line. 

  Quicker than my 2 finger typing, go to the left side of any page here. You will find Peterson and Lucas, as Swingers. Also, Mobile Dimension. They are all Sponsors here. 

[woodbeard]

The swingblade mills will definitely produce dimensional lumber pretty quickly. How much quicker is hard to say without knowing what mill he has now. But if he has been running a hydraulic mill, he may also get frustrated with doing everything manually. I am currently getting myself spoiled in such a fashion.   Also, if he frequently cuts stock over 8" wide, that will slow things down again unless he gets the 10"cut Peterson, or a Mobile Dimension type mill.

[Jeff]

Deadheader, to clarify, Mobile dimension is NOT a sponsor here in fact, never has been and refuses to be.

[crtreedude]

Makes you wonder about the quality of their saw if they can't figure out they should be part of this fine group.

[DanG]

Just to clarify further, Mobile Dimension Saw is a brand name.  It is a multi-blade dimension mill somewhat like the D&L Doublecut mill that IS a sponsor here.  I am a fan of this type of mill, and I own one.  I don't have an urge to own any other type, if that tell's you anything.  Perhaps I should rephrase that;  I'd like to also have a bandmill and a swinger, but I wouldn't give up my MD for one.  I think the multi-blades give you the most bang for your buck, when you consider the labor issue.  For instance, from what I've seen, a second person will triple the output from a swinger or bandmill, but the second person won't even double the output of the multiblade.

Fred, there's nothing wrong with the saw, just the company.

[crtreedude]

I understand DanG, it is another case of good engineers - bad marketing and sales.

[Fla._Deadheader]

           

  There's 10 lashes. That'll show me, EH

[Frank_Pender]

I guess it is kind of like me, I have 4 sawmills on this Tree Farm.  The opportunity is always there for me to expand and hire help to operate each of the mills and another person to help each operator.   Then I would have to hire a marketing crew, secretries and probably cut down on quality with all the added pressure to produce lumber products.  I might even have to advance into making veneer as there is gestting to be a larger demand for such material.

[Part_Timer]

lawyer_sawyer

I have both a manual band mill and a Peterspon swinger. I like the swinger for cutting qsawn, siding and posts.  it is a lot easier and faster than on the manual mill.

Just my.02

Tom

[oakiemac]

I'm kind of like DanG where I like the multi blade type mill but I am not a fan of the current ownership of the Mobile Dimension company. The guy that originally started the company was a fairly good guy from what I can gather and towards the end of his life he to got frustrated with the way the company was being run so he started making Timber Champ saw mills out of his garage. These where good little mills. A good freind of mine had one and he loved it.

I might put another bug in the ear of the current owner about sponsorship. I can't comprhend why he won't even think about sponsoring. He is a very bad buisness man in my opionion.

[sawmill_john]

Hi Frank, DanG, & oakiemac.  Having worked for MDS, for almost 22 years, (I don't work there any more)and I own a '87 md 128 MDS, I still believe it's one of the best mills out there.  It's true other mills can do things better, but for one mill to cut dimensional lumber efficeintly, with one man, you can't beat it.  I don't have a stake in the business, I know what the machine can do and what it can't.  It all comes down to the operator and machine working togather, one won't run with out the other.  I've seen perfectly good machines turn out cr*p lumber, and I've seen good operators totally baffeled by simple mechanical problems, I liken it to playiing a musical instrument, it does take a certin amount of ability.  That was i big bone of contention, with me, the training and base knowledge was lacking from the instruction process.  Ron (mobile mfg co - owner) has owned the company from the begining, his father in-law, Jim May, was the inventor.  The last few years I didn't see the same drive in him, which lead me to take another job, I didn't feel comfortable with not knowing what was around the corner, plusalot of the older guys were retiring and I didn't have much confidence in the replacements, were that leaves the company, it's hard to say.  Like I said before I have one, and I love it!!!!!

See ya around Frank!!!

[karl]

Well now, there's some info I have thought myself but didn't feel comfortable saying....
I guess it's ok since MD isn't a sponser....
I own an MD and fully agree- great machine, poor company support and product knowledge. Also they seem to have no desire to improve the product.
If I were going to buy new, I would think hard about Mighty Mite for the above reasons and that diesel power is available as well as hydraulic decks.
I have no desire to own a band for anything other than as a resaw.

[sawmill_john]

Karl, Mighty Mite makes some big machines but I have heard simular issues with their customer service, so not always is higher cost a factor of how good the product and customer service is.  Now when I worked at mobile I took great pride in providing the best customer service I could, some times I had no options, but I think if you ask most customers we got parts out the same day most of the time.  And I don't remember how many 1000's of hours I spent on the phone with customers that didn't buy a thing from us,  I felt that an operating machine was the best advertising.  I can't vouch for the current operating procedure. 

[Jeff]

THats the one thing good I will allow myslef to say for mobile dimension, rather could say. They had John. Now they dont. Glad we still do. I wont give up on them. I still say we have done a lot for them for no return. (I know there are thousands of people that now know about them that did not before). Just imagine what we could do for them if we were trying.  They probably spen more on toilet paper or coffee everyday then what sponsoring this forum and supporting thier owners on this forum would cost.

No foresight.

[karl]

John- I agree that parts from MD were/are shipped quickly, but recently knowledge of the machines( at least my 1982 version) seems lacking from the guy I talked with. He had to call me back a couple of times and never really answered my questions.
Maybe I could draw on your knowledge a bit? I'm sure there are others out there that are or will be needing to rebuild their engines too.
Here's the scenario- Engine is tired- low oil pressure, low on HP. Needs a rebuild. I don't want to have it down for more than a couple weeks tops. MD wants me to send them the engine so they can "send it out to see what it needs"( I'm in Vermont- they are in Or.) Folks around here want to know what the modifications are before they touch it, Md can't/won't tell me. Can't see me shipping it off to them without some idea of the possible costs(especially after a $6400.+ quote for a new engine!!!) Seems like $2500 should make this thing better than new.

[oakiemac]

I didn't mean to sound too down on the company. I have always had good response to questions and parts. Sawmill John was my favorite person to talk with but Ron always had  the answers as well. I think their product support is actually pretty good.
What I think is lacking is their product development. Why not come out with a hydraulic system that you can upgrade your mill to? Why not come out with a diesel engine? Why not have things like log decks and debarkers?
Their best advertisement value would definately be sponsoring this forum. I can't fathom why they won't
I still think the sawmill is a good value and good mill.

[DanG]

I agree that they should be signing on as a sponsor, as well as appreciating their employees and taking care of them.  I can't believe they fumbled around and let John get away from them.    However, they are far from being the only outfit to not chip in for the press they've gotten here.

The mill itself is a great piece of engineering, and is extremely durable.  I don't think I'd buy a new one at the current price, but I'm convinced it is the best bargain on the used market.

Karl, I went through the rebuild thing last year.  Do ya got the manuals?  Pick up a Haynes VW manual to go along with it and go for it.  The mods only involve the case, the crank and associated bearings.  MD can supply those.  Everything else is standard VW.  Pick a good machine shop to turn your crank.  I went with a large shop and was real disappointed in the service.  I coulda got a new crank from MD cheaper and a whole lot quicker.   Feel free to ask any questions and I'll try to make up an answer that sounds feasible.