The $1,000 Board

[Roxie]

A dear friend, who I won't mention, (Patty), once asked me how I found the Forestry Forum.  I explained to her that I was at work, and they needed a really big board to construct an arbor that the Senior Designer had worked up in his sweet, little (and very important to the company) artistic brain.   
He's at it again, and I'm taking the camera to work tomorrow so that I can get a picture of this for y'all. 
It's a 10" x 10" x 28' Douglas Fir board.  It cost us $1,000.00. 
There are other 10" x 10" boards that are shorter and all of these are being trimmed out with a circular saw and a CHAIN SAW!   
I can't WAIT to show you! 
What I want to know, is $1,000 for that board steep?   

[woodbeard]

It's an absolute bargain considering what you got from finding it

[Jeff]

A little over 4 bucks a board foot. Sounds like the two parties made a deal they could agree upon so Its not up to us to say. Thats a big timber, and thats a lot a money.

[Bibbyman]

Does that price include delivery? 

It's going to take a pretty long trailer to haul it.  Just getting a 28 foot log to saw one out of would be a big problem around here.

[Tom]

Most places, the saw would be the least of the problems.   Try finding a tree that will cut a good 10" X 10" X 28 feet.   We still have SYP that would do it but you'd have to go on a shopping trip to find it.

Price becomes, a lot of the time, bound by "I got it and you ain't".   

A friend of mine runs a mill a couple of towns north of here.  He is known for his dealings and his communication skills, ......or lack of them.

One day a local saw a timber on the lumberyard floor and remarked that it would make a good mantel piece.  "How much do do you want for that slab", he asked.

"$300", answered Dewey.

"Wooooeeeeee, that's a lot of money by the board foot, isn't it", exclaimed the customer?

"Yep", said Dewey as he took another sip of his coffee and went to his office.

That was the end of the conversation. 

[RMay]

Here is a pic. of a 51 foot 10x10 I cut this month it is going in a log house that was built in 1840 .

[Jeff]

Well come on Roy, give us some comparison figures! 

[RMay]

one dollar a bf. they haul it , I load  it

[ARKANSAWYER]

  I would have cut them one out of red oak or SYP,  Shoot for that kind of coin I would have glued up some ERC for them.   I bet hauling was a large part of the charge.  Need photo!

[brdmkr]

I heard of a fellow that paid 200.00 for a 4" x 14" x 8' to be used as a fireplace mantle.  So, the price for that beam actually sounds reasonable.

[Brucer]

Douglas Fir are big trees (especially coastal Douglas Fir).

I can buy D-Fir sawlogs with 12" tops from the local broker for $120 per cubic metre delivered (assuming I buy a truck load). That'ed be about $100 US. A cubic metre would easily give you a timber of that size.

Louis or I would typically charge you $1.20 ($1.00 US) per board foot for a timber like that. Pick it up here in southern BC. Ship it across the country on an empty backhall trailer. Take it across the border and pay 27% illegal duty. Pay your shipping from (say) Montreal to the Northeastern US. Someone is doing OK on that deal  .

'Course you could almost certainly pick one up in Washington or Oregon and avoid the duty.

[Ron Wenrich]

I laid into cutting white pine last week.  I had an order for 10 1/2 x 10 1/2 x 16 for timber framing.  I cut 70 of them. Price was probably around $600/Mbf.  But, that's not Doug fir.

We have one guy that cut 40' timbers on his circle mill.  He has 2 16' carriages bolted together.  He was sawing 12 x 12 x 36' poplar for some timber framers a number of years ago. 

[Daren]

I heard of a fellow that paid 200.00 for a 4" x 14" x 8' to be used as a fireplace mantle.  So, the price for that beam actually sounds reasonable.

I just sold a 14" wide 3" thick 5' long chunk of cedar to a contractor for $125 (that did include 2 brackets made from cedar that took 20 minutes to make) He named the price, he said he could get a mantel at a fireplace dealer for $125 could I do it for that? You bet . Poor guy, he just called last night, they stained the trim a different color than when he ordered it and the customer doesn't like the match so he is going to use it on another job. "Can you build one that I can stain to match for the same money? In a hurry?" He came over and dug around and decided on a laminated mantle with solid edging from some white oak that he would stain. I will have a little labor in this one, but not too much.

[Gilman]

Roxie,
I assume it was a full sawn #2 or Btr?,  If so, they go for about $800-$900/1,000 wholesale.

Most mills that saw doug fir don't saw past 26'.  Customers have to pay extra beyond that.

Those are the lengths I was sawing for the local sawmill, only those over 26'

Looking forward to the pics.

[Engineer]

I've got some white pines left on my place that will yield a 20" x 20" x 50+' long, but try finding a mill to cut it. 

I did some big ones for my house - ten pieces, 8 x 12 x 24' long.   I got four of the ten out of one log.

[Mike_Barcaskey]

what I want to know is, other than air-drying, how do yuo dry something that long?

how do you control twisting, warping, cracking?

[Kirk_Allen]

Well I guess its time for me to figure out how to cut some of those whoppers.  I need 4 -10"x10"x40' beams for my shop.  I plan on cutting them out of the white Oaks I aquired this week. 

I plan on picking up the 24' bed extension to make it work.

Frank, does NO HEART make the best beam or a boxed heart?  I can do it either way with these Oaks.  I have a Timber Frame builder/engineer that is drawing up my plans for the 60x40 TF shop.  I am going to have a 40' open span so that my entire shop is free of posts!    I spoke with him today and he assured me it wont be a problem at all.  I helped him with his TF house last year and he said when he finishes this next house he is working on that he would come down and give me a hand cutting some timbers! 

[Brucer]

First of all, you try and make sure the timber is free of heart.

I forgot to mention that. A 10 x 10 FOHC would need 24" diameter at the top.

Strangely enough, I find myself on my first on-site job, sawing Ponderosa Pine. The smallest log is 19" top and the customer want's it all FOHC. The big one at the back of the pile is 32" top and 20-8" long -- that's just shy of the mill's capacity. Looks like I'll be making some long 12 x 12 next week -- and on a manual mill yet.

I think I need to review my opinion that an Arky Special cant hook isn't necessary around a manual mill . Fortunately the customer's given me one of his employees to help stage the logs. Young guy in his 20's, still has a strong back, doesn't want to be shown up the "old guy". My peavey is longer than his and I only have to do a third of the work .

Kirk:
Free of Heart Centre will not check as heavily as boxed heart -- often not at all. On the other hand, if the species you're using moves a lot to relieve stress, the boxed heart beam is more likely to stay straight.

[Ironwood]

Exactly, FOH will/ should distort out of square. I'de rather box it, then again I like STEEL! Found an old 8000 sq. foot steel building disassembled and blue printed for just over $10,000, which is scrap rate. NO ,I am not using it all just 3200 sq. ft. KIRK.

                                     REID

[Roxie]

I took my camera to work, and got the pictures.  These boards are being trimmed for an outdoor arbor that attaches to the house (the house is huge):

This is the staging area where the boards have already been trimmed and stained.

This is the pile that still needs trimmed and stain

This is a shot of the cut end of the logs

A picture of our most patient employee, Steve, who was cutting the notch with a circular saw and trimming out the arch with a chain saw.  The ends were sanded prior to staining.

A long shot picture of the 28 footer being trimmed. 

I'm hoping to get a chance to photograph the arbor when it's finished.  This company does some beautiful work.  The plants and trees in the background are waiting to be installed in our projects. 
Did I mention that I love my job?   

[beenthere]

Roxie
Those are impressive 'timbers' (not boards, too expensive for 'boards'    ) and thanks for the pics. Keep em coming.

[Buzz-sawyer]

Frank
Around here if we dont box the heart many times, we get major twisting in lengths over 10 feet

[Engineer]

Boxed heart will stay straighter and "squarer", but will check a lot.  A FOHC timber will tend to bow its' ends away from the heart side, and dry trapezoidal.  Depending on the species, it may not even be noticeable, or it may be very obvious. 

If you have the time and resources, I think one good way to partially solve the drying/shrinkage problem is to cut timbers oversize and stack them for a couple years or more.  Then recut to size.  You can get rid of bow/warp/twist that way by shimming them on the mill.  The only downside is that they are harder to work with because they are dried out somewhat. 

[Brucer]

If you have the time and resources, I think one good way to partially solve the drying/shrinkage problem is to cut timbers oversize and stack them for a couple years or more.  Then recut to size.

This is exactly what I'm doing this week. The local timber framer bought some big ponderosa pine logs -- didn't know what he was going to do with them, but the price was good. Now he's got me sawing them into FOHC cants so he can store them for the time being without worrying about excessive checking.

This is a great type of work because I'll probably get asked to come back next year and resaw them to size .

[Duncan]

I do a lot of that kind of work and usually charge about 1.00/BF for something that size.  Unless you had some specifications for grain count or something like that.  Even at the most stringent specifications I have never heard of DF going for more than 3.00/Bf.

That seems really really expensive.

[Fla._Deadheader]

 It's called "Marketing". 

[Gilman]

I see you can post from work now Duncan. Catching up on the 191,801 posts should keep you busy, cheaper than those books too.

[Patty]

Wow, Roxie, that is going to be some arbor!    I can't wait to see more photos.

 Perhaps you could convince the boss that a roadtrip to Iowa  would be a cost effective adventure...and I'd get a new arbor in the process! Man, I come up with the best ideas.   

[Roxie]

Patty, this is the arbor work that I was telling ya about where I had to find the big cedar "timbers" (aren't ya proud of me, Beenthere?).  I think those were 16 footers though....and these are 28.  I thought this seemed on the expensive side, but delivery WAS included in the price.  We're not complaining about the price, we're just happy that we found a supplier in our area with the capacity to do this for us.   

And, Patty.....I WILL find a way to Iowa!   

[Patty]

We are looking forward to it Roxie.