Author Topic: Re-emulsifing ground asphalt. (Read 1849 times)

Ironwood · « **on:** August 22, 2005, 11:01:51 am »

OK all you cost conscience old timers, I need some advice. I just brought in 200 tons of millings. I spread them over the weekend and this morning as the roller was headed up the street to pave our road I flipped him 20 bucks and a case of beer to roll the 3/4 mile driveway. So now it's flat and smoooth. What do I put on it to re-emulsify? I had heard at one time to use calcium, another friend said Diesel (enviromentally?) I do have 55 gallons of contaminated old heating oil/diesel that cannot be used for my machinery, only in a waste oil burner (I almost gave it away earlier this year for that use) any reccommendations?

NEED HELP.

Thanks in advance Reid

billbobtlh · « **Reply #1 on:** August 22, 2005, 11:08:53 am »

Spray some diesel oil mix on a small area and see what it does. You It may be better to leave it as it is. I dont put anything on the millings down here. Getting some today. This heat seems to melt it back together.

beenthere · « **Reply #2 on:** August 22, 2005, 11:22:54 am »

Reid
For what its worth.......
I have been having the same question, since a year ago when I put re-grind (millings?) down, and at the time was told to put old oil down over it ("it will be just like blacktop", he said). So I picked up a couple barrels of old oil on their way to be used in an old-oil fired furnace. But haven't used any yet.

On the re-grind, I changed out some oil couplings and lines and dripped a couple areas with hyd. oil. It's been a year, and doesn't seem like anything has 'taken' place.

However, on another area I had a diesel spill when filling my tractor a couple months ago, and that 2' diam area after this last rain is 'just like blacktop' and appears like it is 'melted' together.
So, as a result, I am going to sprinkle a larger area with the diesel fuel (I also have some old fuel oil left over from a tank removal) to see if it works as well, but I have some confidence it will. I won't be touting this trick with the DNR anytime soon however.

Don't think I'll be using the old oil...........

Ironwood · « **Reply #3 on:** August 22, 2005, 12:07:05 pm »

Thanks for the quick responses. I also just tested an area with diesel and it did seem to make the "juice" necessary to rebind it. I have a guy coming to give a price to tar and chip over but unless it is real cheap I may just wait. My one hill on the "main" drive is steep, very steep and 5 years ago we put 2 modified and then dust, it sluffed off over the years I think this may work well, and I put the asphalt on really thick. I paid $100 for a 22+ ton load and feel it was a bargin, I would be curious as to the cost elswhere. I also wanted volume, 10 loads so I couldn't wait for onesy twosy kind of thing.

REID

gary · « **Reply #4 on:** August 22, 2005, 12:28:30 pm »

Reid when i did paveing we used diesel to clean our tools. I don't know if it will make it stick bach to gether or not I do know that it would take blacktop that had gotten hard on the sides of dump trucks off real quick. All I did when I put it down in my driveway was to drive over it. It compacted real well and after the first hot day it was just like blacktop.

Haytrader · « **Reply #5 on:** August 22, 2005, 12:47:13 pm »

Did a MSN search on asphalt emulsifacation and found many products.
I had remembered I saw a product for use on asphalt at a farm store and I beleive the company was Monsey. As I remember, it was not to expensive.

shopteacher · « **Reply #6 on:** August 22, 2005, 01:06:09 pm »

Reid where can I get a load like that?

Ironwood · « **Reply #7 on:** August 22, 2005, 01:06:49 pm »

Haytrader,

That sounds great Thanks I'll look into it. Reid

Ironwood · « **Reply #8 on:** August 22, 2005, 05:26:44 pm »

Shopteacher:

They just put sewage up our road, and in addition to many tree/ logs, fill dirt topsoil, and 200 tons of ground asphalt the job is complete. The roller just left, flipped him another $20. You gotta capitalize when you can. I don't know about morer loads. There is one guy that gets onesy twosys for $150 here in greensbugh I'll PM you later. Reid

Rockn H · « **Reply #9 on:** August 22, 2005, 05:36:53 pm »

I know that dump trucks spray their beds down before loading to make the asphalt slide out better without sticking to the bed. Too much diesel makes the asphalt weaker. The construction forman usually has to keep a close watch on the mix, as the drivers like to use alot diesel, because it makes their job easier. The asphalt ,for strength, needs less diesel.

Brad_S. · « **Reply #10 on:** August 22, 2005, 07:15:05 pm »

I put in a parking lot with 30 truck loads of millings right off the roadway, chunks and all. After a year, it has packed down hard as pavement with nothing added. I also got a load of re-grind material for fine tuning areas and it doesn't pack worth a darn. Some one mentioned driveway sealer as an additive but I didn't try it.

Ironwood · « **Reply #11 on:** August 22, 2005, 08:01:36 pm »

STATUS REPORT:

I had 2 gallons of unburnable diesel, I spent the afternoon with watering can and the tank chained to the mast of a forklift. The roller guy hit it this morning (HUGE ROLLER WITH A VIBRATOR), and then again this evening (smaller roller). Packed in beautiful. Hill looks great, my son (3) and I cruised the drive tonight to pack the berms where the roller didn't get. IT LOOKS AWSOME! My mother-in-law may want to know where I got the money to pave the drive! I will certainly plow easy this winter, as I don't want to disturb much. We have another drive that goes way around the hill that is asphalted and I use it for trucks and all other traffic and during HEAVY snows. The best part may be the lack of dust! NICE. Finally, I have been waiting for this for years, and they couldn't get any closer, literally. Thanks for all your input. I would still be interested in what others are paying if at all. I felt it was a great deal. Just curious.

THANKS ALL, REID

beenthere · « **Reply #12 on:** August 22, 2005, 08:20:58 pm »

Brad_S
For my education, what is the difference between millings and re-grind? Thanks

Brad_S. · « **Reply #13 on:** August 22, 2005, 08:37:58 pm »

The nomenclature used around here is:

Millings come right off the road into the truck and delivered to you. There is a full range from fines right on up to large platter size chunks that have the passing lines still on them. The milling process must generate heat because they came out of the truck hot and crumbly like fresh asphalt. I had to stockpile it for use at a later date, but if I had been able to use it then and there, it would have packed real well.

Re-grind has been taken back to a central location and put through a grinder to break down the chunks into a more uniform, gravel like product. It also seems to cause the product to lose it's adhesive qualities.

I paid $100 a truck load for the millings which was on the higher side but it was a long haul and I needed the product NOW and couldn't wait for a closer job. I've heard of getting it as cheap as $60 a truck load, which is of course a relative amount. Some trucks came in creaking and some were awfully light. All deliveries were C.O.D. cash only.

Re-grind, or double ground, was $7.50 a ton, about the same as crusher run dolomite around here.

Haytrader · « **Reply #14 on:** August 22, 2005, 08:40:45 pm »

Back in 71, I lived in southern OK.
Must have been close to a shingle factory.
Several businesses used the cutouts of asphalt shingles for covering parking areas.
They spread and packed them and although they were not as smooth as others, worked well.

Ironwood · « **Reply #15 on:** August 22, 2005, 09:36:07 pm »

Brad S.

Thanks, the stuff was consistant #2's size with finer in with it. I saw them milling it and the unit was moving fast and skimming the road, taking maybe.....1 1/2" off of the road in 5-6' widths using multi passes. Sounds like I did OK then given your discription. They did give me 2 huge loads for free that were not consistant they said it was what the brushes don't pick up. It had mostly super fines and chunks, plate size. None of the trucks were light. They all "CREAKED" as they came in. They had planned 6 trucks to run the job, after I spoke to the foreman as to quantity they sent all but two to another job. So I think they loaded heavy since the street was closed and they had to run it 3/4 to 0 miles to my place. So they saved the wages of the drivers and made money with the trucks on other jobs. Thanks again

REID

Roxie · « **Reply #16 on:** August 23, 2005, 09:01:54 am »

We just paid $150 for 10 tons of millings. Around here that's a great price and the stuff is really hard to get. I'd say you did VERY well.

We just put it down and drive over it and it ends up better than stone, but not quite as smooth as blacktop.

Ironwood · « **Reply #17 on:** August 23, 2005, 01:21:02 pm »

Roxie

Thanks for the input. It seems hard to get around here as well and I pounced on the oppurtunity and had my wallet and a positive attitude ready. I had the roller come by and if any pavers are in your area doing other jobs I wouldn't hesitate to flip them some cash to roll it, and a little off road diesel/heating oil seems to really make a difference especially in shaded and hilly areas as it makes a top hard coat.

REID

Quartlow · « **Reply #18 on:** August 23, 2005, 05:26:52 pm »

This where working part time at a paving company pays off, I've been dumping ashphaul around the mill all summer, even built a raod out into the pasture so we didn't have to fight the mud this winter.

I don't put anything on millings just keep driving on it and it will choke in tight.

Ironwood · « **Reply #19 on:** August 28, 2005, 08:31:10 pm »

OK, MY FINAL WORD.

Roll it! then Heating oil via watering can, 5 hours a couple of gallons later. Let it sit iin hot sun for the day, Re-roll it. Then drive on it repeatedlly for several days. The top firms up, looks like pavement but a little sticky, so then sprinkle light to heavy with medium to large size sawdust shavings ( my three year old is a good helper here) Viola !!!!!!!!! BEAUTIFUL NEW DRIVEWAY. MY 93 and 95 year old nieghbors think I walk on water, as this sounds like something an old depression era folk would have dreamed up. Seriously my poor as dirt Grampa must be smiling at me from above, he had a down home trick for everything!

Anyone got gallons of old contaminated heating oil diesel near Pittsburgh? I'll buy it for a buck a gallon!!!?

? I ran out. REID

Furby · « **Reply #20 on:** August 28, 2005, 10:59:34 pm »

I got close to a hundred for ya..............a bit aways though.

Egon · « **Reply #21 on:** August 29, 2005, 06:58:47 am »

Last thing you want to do is put hydro carbons like old oil or diesel fuel on asphalt. Guaranteed to leave you with only the aggragate that was in the asphalt as the asphalt will dissolve.

Asphalt and oil are two very different items and not compatible.

When working on asphalt jobs diesel is used to clean the tools.

Egon

beenthere · « **Reply #22 on:** August 29, 2005, 08:35:10 am »

My thoughts (tried not to think about it

) are that 'diesel on asphalt' is not good, but is different than 'diesel on ground asphalt'.

Without anything, the ground asphalt remains pretty loose even if driven on and packed with a roller. The diesel has a 'hardening' effect and has made a smooth, hard layer that is much more like asphalt than not. I have not had the same effect when applying old oil over the ground asphalt. It remains 'oily' but doesn't get packed.

I'll be anxious to hear how Reid's progresses. Sounds like he is doing okay with it so far.

And I agree that cleaning tools with diesel works great. It keeps the asphalt from sticking to the tools too.

Ironwood · « **Reply #23 on:** May 08, 2006, 01:20:50 am »

UPDATE:

New year new opportunity. State was paying to have another road nearby grinding in patches for repaving. They own the grindings not the contractor. READ, THEY CAN'T ACCEPT MONEY FOR IT!!!!

I got about 25-30 loads. My close nieghbor got 4 ,another 1 load. I spread about half with my tractor, stock piled the rest (trucks were coming so fast I couldn't move it all quick enough and I had to keep the road open for them to make "LAPS" thru our circtious drive. The trucks were triaxel plow trucks and they were full to heavy with fairly consistant grind. MAN for those of us who live off the road with long drives you can't beat this stuff. GOD was smiling down on me this week. Paved around the shop this year, my trailer parking area and all the little drives around the place. (I could only dream of this given the cost of actual paving).

Update from last year, the diesel is key for quick binding and "choking in". The drive is incredible. It paved really well and endured the frost and freeezing water without issue. Even tire chains on my HPX Gator didn't effect the drive only leaving the tell tale white marks were the tires had broken loose during plowing (their were tons of these on my steep drive as I plowed uphill just for fun) One thought, keep the grinding at least 3-4 inches minimum for durability. Rolling the top gives a nice consistant flat layer for the emulsifying, this year I used my 8000 lb forklift to "roll". Lots of back and forth (criss crossing and diagonal) and I took the forks off to get close to my buildings. The fuel also locks the edges in well that the roller can't get to (they slope away into the ditches)

Reid

Buzz-sawyer · « **Reply #24 on:** May 08, 2006, 01:02:08 pm »

What ablessing Reid!
The county has beencleaning the ditches on our gravel road, and supplied me with 25 loads of fill dirt for free this past week

Ironwood · « **Reply #25 on:** May 08, 2006, 03:36:32 pm »

Buzz,

Yeah, any free fill is a blessing( as is the place to put it) Most folks near me have small parcels and no way to handle or move it so I look very good to most contractors. The stock piled 15 extra loads of asphalt are sitting on GOODNESS knows how much free fill from the sewer project on our road last year (the first part of this thread was due to the grinding from the road repair afterward) The contractor even leveled it for me (would have seeded too if I had wanted him too). Oh yeah, I got about 20 free trees out of the deal last year as well, mostly oak and cherry (about $1000 worth). Bottom feeders of the highest order!

Reid

Buzz-sawyer · « **Reply #26 on:** May 08, 2006, 03:51:26 pm »

It has for the longest time been my assertion, that, an enterprising person can make a living if not a vast fortune, out of the things other people wish to dispose of............

getoverit · « **Reply #27 on:** May 09, 2006, 12:38:58 am »

They regularly grind off layers of asphalt for repaving here in Florida. The contractors usually stockpile the grindings, add more tar to it and then repave the same road it came off of with it.

Sounds like you got a deal though. Some guys get all the good junk

brdmkr · « **Reply #28 on:** May 10, 2006, 12:51:46 pm »

Reid,

You have me thinking about giving this a try. You have any pics of the finished product? I have a missus that I will need to convince

Ironwood · « **Reply #29 on:** May 10, 2006, 04:46:32 pm »

Too busy photograph, but I'll get some and post them. It is AWSOME beyond belief. You will be her hero! No more dust/ dirty cars, and on and on. We Have a long drive and it always needed grading and such. The limestone turns to ball bearings over time as the calcium is worn away, not so with grindings especially if locked in with "reimulsification". Reid

UNCLEBUCK · « **Reply #30 on:** May 11, 2006, 12:09:50 am »

I drove a hot mix truck a few summers ago and the trailer had a belt feed conveyor that would shoot the hot mix out the back end . Had to stop before reloading the next load and would pull up to the spray rack and get out and spray diesel fuel all over the inside of the trailer and the tail and the tar buildup would just melt off , couldnt beat that tar off but a little diesel fuel here and there and the inside of the trailer was clean and ready for the next load . Stinky job for sure

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Author Topic: Re-emulsifing ground asphalt. (Read 1849 times)