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Author Topic: toxic tree's question  (Read 5518 times)

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Offline whitepine

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toxic tree's question
« on: August 17, 2005, 10:36:53 pm »
Wondering if there are other trees besides black walnut that are toxic to other plants. I am not talking about shade  intolerance but chemical like Black walnut can kill red pine. Anyone know of other trees that cannot tolerate others I am in the very northern part of USA in MN.

Offline Dale Hatfield

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Re: toxic tree's question
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2005, 07:17:01 am »
Whitepine
I just heard a report on NPR the other day . That stated that allot of fall leaves produced a herbicide like walnut. They  said that the Tree of Heaven/stink tree.  made the most poisons. Am chestnut used to be  a large maker of the poisons .  That was why the once were the only tree in the woods.
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Offline OneWithWood

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Re: toxic tree's question
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2005, 09:32:18 am »
Black Cherry is poisonous to other Black Cherries within a certain distance. 
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Offline Jeff

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Re: toxic tree's question
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2005, 11:19:52 am »
Black Cherry is poisonous to other Black Cherries within a certain distance. 

Really?  I never heard that. I wonder what natures plan there involves?
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Online Ianab

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Re: toxic tree's question
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2005, 02:13:39 pm »
There is a company here in NZ producing a weed killer from Pine needles. Seems there is a toxin in them that supresses / kills other plants, especially if it's concentrated. I think that it combines with the shade thing to keep down competition around the pines.

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Offline jon12345

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Re: toxic tree's question
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2005, 09:23:04 am »
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Offline OneWithWood

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Re: toxic tree's question
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2005, 09:43:27 am »
Jeff,
I did some research to help me explain the symptoms I reported.  I could not come up with a confirmation of the black cherry (Rosaceae Prunus serotina Ehrh) tree limiting the growth of other cherries.  I could have sworn I read that some where and it was a means for limiting competition similar to Black Walnut (Juglans nigra) but only of its own species.  Here is the closest thing I could come up with

Certain herbaceous plants interfere with establishment of black cherry regeneration through an allelopathic mechanism. Flat top aster (Aster umbellatus), rough stemmed goldenrod (Solidago rugosa), brackenfern (Pteridium aquilinum) and wild oatgrass (Danthonia compressa) (30) release chemicals from their leaves or roots that sometimes interfere with black cherry growth and development. Woodland fern and grasses may also interfere with black cherry regeneration, through a complex of mechanisms that involve both light and nitrogen effects (31,34). Black cherry may interfere with regeneration of other tree species, such as red maple (32), but this has not been investigated thoroughly

Perhaps my recollection became twisted over the years  :D
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Offline estiers

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Re: toxic tree's question
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2005, 08:10:37 am »
It is called allelopathy: the suppression of growth of one plant speciesby another one due to the releasse of toxic substances. 

I knewe that education would pay off one day!!
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Offline David B

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Re: toxic tree's question
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2005, 02:13:56 pm »
Salt Cedars (tamarisks) kill off all other vegetation around them by concentrating salt in their needles/leaves and dropping them. Most plants can takle around 15,000 ppm salt....they concentrate it to around 41,000 ppm. They also hog water and grow like weeds.
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Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: toxic tree's question
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2005, 03:53:39 pm »
Yeah, we have trouble with brachen and also lamb kill, they affect tree growth.  I don't know of any other tree other than butternut which is also a walnut. Most hardwood and aspen are beneficial for the soil, even more so is beaked hazel (pound/pound). Oak leaf fall tends to be a bit acidic though.

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

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Offline Pullinchips

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Re: toxic tree's question
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2005, 09:18:36 pm »
pecans are some what toxic, same family and genus as walnut (juglandacea juglans) the pecan species i am referring to is illonoasis (spelling?).
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Offline David B

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Re: toxic tree's question
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2005, 09:53:52 pm »
Removing these salt cedars...what should we do to get rid of the high salt content in the needles on the ground? Burning them won't help will it? 
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Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: toxic tree's question
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2005, 07:44:32 am »
Removing these salt cedars...what should we do to get rid of the high salt content in the needles on the ground? Burning them won't help will it? 

Any info on your state's website? Have you gotten on the line with your local/county forest extension?

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
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Offline jon12345

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Re: toxic tree's question
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2005, 01:16:38 pm »
How big of an area is there? Maybe if you raked all the needles away and then let the the bare soil get rained on a few times to get rid of some of the salt, then throw on a couple inches of mulch to dilute the salt content a little.
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Offline Beweller

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Re: toxic tree's question
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2005, 01:42:28 pm »
Oliver and Larson's Forest Stand Dynamics, page 190, has a list of allelopathic species and the tree specie affected.

On this subject, does anyone know how to kill club moss (lycopodium)?
Beweller

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: toxic tree's question
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2005, 02:18:31 pm »
Never heard of club mosses being dedrimental to trees. It grows extensively here is mixed forest of poplar, aspen, birch, maple, white spruce, and balsam fir. Alot of people use it to make Christmas decorations.  Now, Schreber's moss Pleurozium schreberi is used in locating pollution sources and determining levels of pollution of heavy metals in the environment. It absorbs metals over its entire surface.

Beweller, do you have a link on the internet to view?

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
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Offline David B

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Re: toxic tree's question
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2005, 04:28:01 pm »
How big of an area is there? Maybe if you raked all the needles away and then let the the bare soil get rained on a few times to get rid of some of the salt, then throw on a couple inches of mulch to dilute the salt content a little.

Pretty large area. about 18" deep with needles. Gonna be a tractor job. I'm thinking we're going to have to haul it all off somewhere to get rid of the salt, no?
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Offline Paschale

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Re: toxic tree's question
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2005, 01:46:22 pm »
Aren't Norway Maples poisonous to other trees in the vicinity as well?  I've heard that this is actually an invasive species brought in for ornamental reasons, but that they have the potential of really wreaking havoc in the wild.

I did a little research, and sure enough, Norway Maples do this. 

Here's an interesting link at the Nature Conservancy, with photos, of some of the nasties mentioned in this thread, along with a few invasive species.

salt cedar

Mealeluca or Punk Tree

barberry bushes

Norway Maple
Y'all can pronounce it "puh-SKOLLY"

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: toxic tree's question
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2005, 03:57:01 pm »
Norway Maple is invasive, but poisonous no. I've seen it invade the park near the University, as does European mountain ash. What has been a  bigger nuisance in my area is box elder, which is not native to my area. It's has taken over the banks of the river in some areas, but it can't survive in our natural forest, the native hardwoods would soon over top it. Norway maple can survive our climate, but is susceptible to nectaria disease fungi and isn't as frost hardy as native hardwoods. I see a lot of them get so big and by 30 years of age they die or the bark splits open on them.  Further south it's possibly troublesome. There are different varieties, one is 'the crimson king' which as red leaves in the growing season. I have one of those. It produces seed, but I've never seen any germinate.

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
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Offline jon12345

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Re: toxic tree's question
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2005, 02:11:54 pm »
Onewithwood - I found information that stated black cherry seedlings grew better proportionally to the distance from the parent tree.  If I can find the link again I'll post it.  :P



here it is, kinda technical though
 http://www.susqu.edu/facstaff/p/packer/articles/Ecology03.pdf
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