Dog Sawyers Club

[ex-racer]

I've seen some of you bandmill folks refer to the "Dog Sawyers Club".

Well, if it's open to circle saw guys, I have become eligible for membership. 

For thirty years, before gigging the carriage back empty, I've always checked to make sure the off-bearer doesn't leave the long dog "out" when he removes the "dog board".

Saturday,  it happened. The long dog was left out, and I didn't see it.





The saw hooked the dog and knocked it up off the vertical shaft that it slides on, where it hit the setwork lever, bending it and breaking the dog.




Three bits were destroyed, and the "shoulders" of those sockets were somewhat damaged, (the worst of which is shown in the photo above) and one of the shanks still hasn't been located.

Advice needed. Before I head for the nearest SawDoc, 200 miles away, do you circle saw guys think this saw can be repaired?


Ed

[Jeff]

Advice needed. Before I head for the nearest SawDoc, 200 miles away, do you circle saw guys think this saw can be repaired?

Yep. I wonder about the steel in that saw, usually a shoulder will break when bent to that extreme, but sure, that aint no hill for a climber. If you want a real expert opinion, send a message to Peach or call Menominee Saw and ask to talk to him.

[UNCLEBUCK]

Boy thats too bad , I guess I have never opened the dogs from the boardmans spot but always bring the carriage back and open them myself then give a few pulls and slide the knees back and kick the dogboard in and then send it down so the boardman "me" doesnt have to mess with it .  I hate sawing that last past because it looks like I am going to saw right through every dog anyway .  I hope your fix doesnt cost too much and can be used again .That would have scared me right through the roof ! I know that blades can be shipped anywhere to be fixed if you got a wood crate to put it in . When I ordered a blade I think I was more amazed at the neat wood crate it came in than the blade itself 

[Gilman]

Some help for us band mill operators.

What are the following terms, photos would be great too.

"Opening the dogs"

"boardman's spot"

"Carriage"  I at least know what this is, no explaination needed 

"Sliding the knees back"

"dogboard"

Thanks

[VA-Sawyer]

Gillman,
I'm also lost when these 'circle' fellows start speaking their secret code words.  I've tried to learn their secrets, even offered to help a couple of days on a circle mill for free. No such luck. Now that the 'big boss' is converting over to the bandmill religion, maybe he will let us in on a few things.  Maybe he will even be able to include a few pictures for us slow learners.
VA-Sawyer

[Buzz-sawyer]

Remember fellas regarding Jeff.......you can take the man outta the mill but ya cant get the mill outta the man

[Jeff]

A "Knee" is the upright assembly that moves the log or cant in and out on the carriage. There is a knee assembly or reffered to sometimes as just "Knee" on each bunk. A bunk is the horizontal part of the mill that the log lays on. Another term for the whole thing, the bunk and the knee, along with its dog assembly is a "Headblock". You may here the term 3 headblock mill, or 4 headblock mill and so on. Usually the more headblocks, the longer the carriage, and the bigger the mill and the longer a log you can secure to the carriage.

The Knee assembly also holds the "dogs" the mechanisms that secure the log to the carriage. There is usally a top dog that comes down from the top and a bottom dog that comes up from the bottom.  The term "Dog board" describes the last board on the mill, the one that the dogs are secured to.

[VA-Sawyer]

Jeff,
Rember I said I was kinda slow about this circle stuff.  I've never seen one operate so your explaination was almost clear as mud.  Does the bunk ride along track ? The knee is mounted on the bunk and can move towards or away from the blade. Is that correct ? The dogs are attached to the knee and is what actually 'clamps' or grips the log.  What is the difference between bunk and carriage? I'm thinking the bunk is the platform the log lays on and the carriage is the everything that moves on the track. ( bunks, knees, dogs etc. ) Is that correct.  I really want to get all this straight in my mind. It would be easier if I could see one operate up close.
Rick

[Fla._Deadheader]

 VA_Sawyer. Ya GOT IT, Dude. 

  Go look at the pics of the Circle Mill that Kevjay is taking down. Great pics on there. 

[Gilman]

Thanks Mr. B

[Larry]

I think I know what a "husk" is but how did the name come about?

[Fla._Deadheader]

 I've heard it called a "Cab" by the old timers. 

[Don P]

Bummer Ed,
I've always been afraid of doing that. We open up at the backside all the time and stack the flitches back on the carriage to bring them back and edge them. I did see lots worse wrecks than that at the shop that hammered my blade. If I remember right it was going to cost $75 to ship my blade about 200 miles to that shop. We made a long day trip of it. I took the neighbor and his son and we had fun watching the Doc hammer, yours might take longer than that to fix tho.
I was afraid you'd sawed your pup. Mine ran thru the pit one day when I was sawing with a bunch of friends there,  how he missed the blade I don't know, scared the mess outta me  . I did try to saw too thin a dogboard on some persimmon one time and it fell off the carriage, took the guides right off the saw.

I was looking in C.H. Wendell's book on circular mills hoping to find out where husk comes from, he says "also called "cab"  Websters dictionary just says "a supporting framework" 

[beenthere]

VA-Sawyer
Another good resource that has been mentioned on the Forum before is this one by Stan Lunstrum on Circular Sawmills

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/misc/circsaw.pdf#search='Sawmill%20Lunstrum'

Some of these things are mentioned there, and a lot of information about the setup and operation of a circular mill.

Hope this helps some more, but Jeff is the expert for sure. 

[ex-racer]

Thanks, all, for the encouraging advice.

I'm wondering if this old blade is worth spending money on. It cost me $60, and was in questionable shape when I built my mill 30 years ago. I had it hammered and it has worked fine since then.

I've only used the mill to produce lumber for my own building projects, house and barns, etc.
When this happened, I was sawing for a summer cottage, which will likely be my last building project before I sell the mill.

There is only room for a 36" or 38" blade on this mill. Do any of you know what a new or good used blade of this size would cost?

I'm thinking that it will be easier to sell the mill if it has a decent blade on it, and, I wouldn't have to worry as much about the buyer killing himself, or others, with it.

Ed

[Buzz-sawyer]

i havent looked at a blade that small...but a blade48"- 56" range from $1500-$2000 U.S

B.H. Payne 38 Inch Inserted Tooth Circular Saw $837.00
 
 


B.H. Payne 38 Inch Inserted Tooth Circular Saw

Inches Diameter : 38
Gauge Rim : 8
Each Gauge Heavier : $ 20.67

Patterns : 'B', 'F', '2 1/2', '3', '4 1/2'

Buyer pays all freight charges. Freight charges shipped C.O.D.
 

 
   
 
 
 
 

[Frickman]

Ex-racer,

That saw doesn't look too bad, I've wrecked them worse. I would try to fix it if possible, as that saw has way better steel in it than any new ones. Over the years the saw companies have changed the alloy they use, I believe they have dropped the nickel content. Anyway, I've found out that an older saw, in good shape and hammered for the mill it is on, will outsaw any new saw. That's just my personal experience though. I have a thirty year old saw here that a sawmill supply dealer wants. He'll trade me even up for a new one. I told him that if he wants it that bad maybe I'll keep it. 

I never realized that us circle mill folks have our own vocabulary, as I was raised around them. Around here we use many of the same terms, although we call the boardman an "offbearer." Jeff mentioned a dog above the log, and another below. On the automatic mills he has run there are usually two dogs, sometimes a third called a "tong dog." However, on the stick mills with manual carriages there is only one dog, above the log.

[Ron Wenrich]

I used to have problems with grazing dogs when trying to pull to thin of a dogboard.  We had electronic limit switches that would stop the headblock advance.  They don't work everytime, so we put in a mechanical limit, so the dogs won't advance past the saw.

The problem with handmills is that the dogs can be positioned past the saw.  The metal is coming back at you. 

I know of 2 instances where the dog hit the saw on the gig back.  One mill was an automatic and shattered the saw.  Very impressive, and tore rafters in half.  The other put the steel back at the operator, and didn't have very good results. 

I've damaged saws worse than that and had them repaired.  A good saw doc will be able to repair the shoulders.  I've even bent shoulders back into shape and kept using the saw.  Yours look to be a tad bit beyond that.   

[ex-racer]

Thanks Buzz, for the pricing info.

Frickman, and Ron, you've convinced me. I'm going to take the old saw to the Saw Doc to see what they can do.  

When I built this mill, I copied the dog design from a mill that I had seen somwhere, but I can't remember the "make".

The dog (photo in my first post above) is manually operated, and slides up and down on a vertical shaft. It has a long "bit" for round logs, and a short one for the cants. The short one only extends 1/2" past the knees, and cannot hit the saw.

The off-bearer is supposed to grab the dog-board by the bottom edge and  pull it straight out, off the end of the bunks, which allows the dog to drop straight down.
This locks it in a position that prevents the long bit from swinging out where it could get into the saw.

Does this sound like any of the old manufactured mills?

Ed

[Jeff]

Here is a crash from about a year ago. 

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=7893.0

[Ron Wenrich]

Your unloading is the way most of the old hand mills did it.  However, the dogs usually were on a ratchet and didn't fall down to the bunks. 

The problem with the practice is sometimes the dogs will pull out past the saw for the return gig.  Manual dogs cannot have any play in them.

When I run a hand mill, I like the offbearer to put the dogs up and push them in.  I always want my dogs above the saw. 

[dail_h]

   XR,
   That dog looks just like the one on the old Moffit mill I got started on.