Those of you with Alaskan Mills

[twoodward15]

I'm just wondering how you like them and wondering if there is anything you would change.  I have full access to a machine shop and am going to start building one.  It doesn't look too complicated and I think I could turn one out that will work well.  Does anyone use the Granberg chain?  Is it worth buying or would you recommend another brand?  Anyone see anything wrong with making it instead of just buying one?

[woodbeard]

There isn't much to them, I built my own, too. I used some aluminum extruded tube, cause that's what I had. The edges are round, which I would avoid if I did it again, it tends to ride up over the sawdust, where a square edge would push it away.

[twoodward15]

Oddly enough I'm using the square aluminum tube.  I was thinking the same thing you were.  My thousand dollar question is,  When you made the "t's"  that adjust the thickness of lumber you cut, did you justweld then flat or did you turn the the long tube 45 degrees and weld it to the piece that clamps to the bar?  Did you use "u" bolts and do they tension it enough? 

[IndyIan]

I find the biggest time waster is setting up the guide on the log for the initial two cuts.  Do some research on getting a good set up for that and you'll enjoy sawing more.  I've used the 2x10 attached with wedges and screws method and its a bit painful to setup.

As for the mill it would be nice to have the depth adjustments not need a scrench, the u bolts are a bit mickey mouse but they work and are cheap to replace. 
Good luck with it,
Ian

[twoodward15]

Ok, I've got almost everything laid out now.  Tomorrow I will bring my saw in and make the clamps that clamp the bar.  I'll get it welded up and machine some channels for t-bolts to adjust for bar length and I should be good to go.  I used 1 by 1.5 inch square aluminum tubing for the main carriage and am using 1X1 box for the depth adjustment.  Woodbeard, do you know what size angle iron used for the cross braces?  I am using 2 by 2 angle but wonder if I should be using 3X3 to put the stainless rod (running at the top in the middle, for adjustment and a handle to push on I guess) in a higher position.  Any suggestions?  I'll try to post pics with my sally McCulloch on it.  Sorry that's all I have for now until I make sur eit works, then I'll upgrade to a real saw.

[DonE911]

As for the chain itself... I use the ripping chain from baileys, its pretty good stuff and cost effective... I get it in 25 ft rolls at a time.

[woodbeard]

Twoodward, I have very limited metalworking skills, so I actually used wood for the cross pieces, notched to fit the aluminum tubes. 3/4" allthread runs thru them with nuts on either side to adjust height, and the bar is bolted to the ends of the allthread. I wish I could help you out, but I think you're already building it better than mine. Mine is a real pain to adjust.

[D Martin]

A real improvement on an alaskin is a track and caraige like a bandmill. the caraige and track need not be all that heavy duty, the log bed does. My solution,    already made stuff. like a frankinmill   perry staging for the caraige, (free), track  -electrial unistrut 2 20 foot pieces 80$, chain link fence gate wheels 4 @ 20$ biggest cost 2 10 foot conveyor sections 60$ each. Not having to kneel down ,kill your back and breath two stroke gas fumes ...     priceless.

[woodbeard]

For chain, I just use a good quality chisel tooth, full comp, and file it to 0 deg across the top plate.  I have tried modifying it like granbergs, but didn't notice enough if any difference to do it again.

[twoodward15]

Woodbeard.  What is full comp?  Are you saying that you don't remove any of the teeth or the tops of them?

[woodbeard]

Right. Full comp, or full compliment just means the standard cutter sequence, as opposed to full skip, or semi-skip. You will probably get several different opinions on what setup is best, so don't rely solely on my info. I settled on mine because it is simple and easy to make from readily available chain. It is also what Will Mallof describes in his classic book, "Chainsaw Lumbermaking"

[DonE911]

You'll find an angle you like.  The ripping chain I get comes at 10 deg.... I have changed that for different woods to pick up a little speed....  the 0 deg doesn't work as well for me as say 5 deg on a hard wood like oak, but anything from 0 deg to 10 deg seems to work the same in softwood.
I don't have an alaskan, I have a logosol m7, but the cutting is the same.

[t_andersen]

D Martin, is there any chance that you could post a few photos? Thanks

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

If you check out Will Malloff's book, Chainsaw Lumber Making - Taunton Press,  you will notice something very useful:

He rigged the mill frame and the saw in such a way as to let him change the chain with the mill still on the bar and the bar still on the saw.   Believe me -  filing chain can make you go into sawdust withdrawal pretty quick.  With this trick he said he could take a few sharp chains and keep his time into his cutting, not filing.  Since you are building your own mill, you could incorporate that feature from the start.

I have noticed what DonE mentions in relation to 0-degree ripping cutter grind:   This past Saturday I cut some 20-22" Pecan which had been down a couple of months (not good).   Since my bar is just a little sloppy, when I would hit those silica-hardened pockets in the Pecan, then chain would veer up just a bit.  Once it jacked the frame up off the log, there was no return.   The cutters would not bite enough to get back down, so the rivet heads were probably rubbing.

Pecan is the only thing I have cut that is tougher that Hickory.

On the other hand, there is simplicity.  Like Woodbeard I make my own chain from full chisel 404 full complement.  (I got a good deal on a roll of Stihl brand cheap a couple of years ago.)  It's just easy to grind the teeth off straight across and go with it.

BUT, LORDY, LORDY, NOT ON PECAN!

I finally took a 5/32 file and bevelled the insides of the cutter sides to help.   Once I close my rails and machine true I think I'll be ready for the hard stuff again.   (Not that kind of hard stuff!)

Amazin' how critical bar groove width and rail eveness becomes when yooz rippin!

Phil L.

[DanG]

Hey Phil L.  Good to see you back on here. What's been happnin'?

[Brucer]

I bought Malloff's book when it was first published in 1982. Followed all his suggestions (including the one to try to improve on his suggestions ). I started off with the Granberg style ripping chain (because I had a couple of loops), but then I tried using his 0 degree design and found that it cut much faster and stayed sharp longer. Note that he also filed his gullets deeper.

Once I figured out how saw chain was supposed to work, I decided that a 5 or 10 degree angle full comp chain (Oregon makes one) would probably work better. I never got to try that theory out because I ended up converting to bandmills instead  .

I drilled the bar out as Malloff suggested and that really made it easy to swap chains. However, I didn't take him too seriously about the air-hardening nature of chain saw bars when I drilled my first hole. Two expensive drill bits & 3 mini grinding stones later I got that first hole complete . Then I took his advice and used a piece of half inch steel plate beneath the bar when I drilled the second hole. I drilled slowly with plenty of cutting fluid and the second hole went in like a dream. I only bothered to drill a single half-inch hole at each end of the bar.

[D Martin]

D Martin, is there any chance that you could post a few photos? Thanks

T I posting a pick here is harder than I thougt it would be, I did manage to get a pic in my gallery , click on members gallery its the only pic i got in there there are som companies that sell their design. procut comes to mind. I enjoyed designing my own and as alot of the parts I used were already built things, just modified to work for my application. It works well but as everyone says you moove up to bigger toys eventually. ie bandmills. It was fun to build though. Its for sale ifin ya interested

[Dan_Shade]

here you go:




(for reference, click on "copy phot insertion code" then come back to a message and do a Ctrl-v to paste it in)

[D Martin]

Thanx dan, I musta spent 2 hrs trying to figure that out. Now if i could take better pics

[Dan_Shade]

i think photography is a "knack", some people are good at it, some people aren't, and then there are those in the middle.

the secret to a good picture is sizing up what's important, I guess that can be learned, but anyways, that's a good idea, it always makes me happy when somebody figured something out to make life easier

[t_andersen]

Hi D Martin,

I sent you a private message, don't know whether you got it. Any way that you could send some more detailed photos? I might copy your approach or mayby buy your stuff, kind of long transport though but might be possible, I'm in the US now and then.

Thanks for the posting the photo so far!

Regards
Tom

[twoodward15]

So you think I should just regrind my teeth to 0 degrees (between 0 and 10 anyway) and it will work well?  That'll save me some money, which is my ultimate goal (I'm cheap).  Anyone want to suggest the best (safest for the chain) way to grind these down?  File or grinder? So I sharpen the underside of the tooth, should I do anything to the side?  Make the gullet any bigger?  I am just waiting on a machinist to mill two slots down the top of my rail for a bar adjustment system, then I can put it completely together and drill the few remaining holes to bolt it all up.  I was going to have them weld it, but I wanted the option of putting some really long rails on it for a long bar.  It'll accomodate up to about 36 inches of bar now, maybe 40, but I wanted to be able to make some 5 or 6 footers if this sawmill thing pans out for me.  All in all it really didn't take very long.  I cut and filed every piece by hand.  laid out all of my metal and clamped everything up nice and square.  Drilled the majority of the aluminum that needed it (a few remain to be drilled on final assembly) and I have abouot 2.5 hours into it.  I don't know how much the aluminum would have cost or the machinist to weld my upside down "T's" for the adjustment system or the milling operations, but when it's all said and done I'll have two "U" bolts into it and that's it (along with my time).  I even got the chainsaw for free, but it needed a carb kit and spark plug.  I guess my grand total will be about $20 into it.  I'll be on vacation next week, so I hope to finsh it up the week after that.  I'll get some pictures posted ASAP!

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

You know how it is, sometimes making a livin' is just such a distraction!

Thats what I have been up to and a good bit more involved at the church.
In my prayers I have made a request that I get this time back in the here-after.
AFter all, doesn't the Good Book say something like...

"And if any one shall give up houses or lands or good logs and chainsaw
time, for My Name's sake, he shall be rewarded a hundred fold in the life to come."    close enough???   

Heaven =  a 60" Red Oak and the time, energy
and mix to see what God painted on the inside !!   [Maybe I better look that up agin!  Now what did Jesus really say, anyway?]

Phil L.

[D Martin]

hey tom, I e- maile'd you a pic and some procedures that I used , I hope you got it.If not let me know I could re send it. I know sometimes I delete good mail with as much  junk mail in my in box as there is it gets lost in the shuffle. I'll try and get some more detailed picks on my computer.    Good luck and let me know how it works out for you.

[Brucer]

So you think I should just regrind my teeth to 0 degrees (between 0 and 10 anyway) and it will work well?  That'll save me some money, which is my ultimate goal (I'm cheap).  Anyone want to suggest the best (safest for the chain) way to grind these down?  File or grinder? So I sharpen the underside of the tooth, should I do anything to the side?  Make the gullet any bigger?

I had the local saw shop do the initial grind with their wheel grinder. Taking a tooth from a 30 degree angle down to 0 takes an awful lot of filing . Also leaves you with a lot less useable tooth. That's why I was interested in Oregon's chain.

Once the chain was reground, I touched it up with a hand-held electric grinder with a round stone. I ground the teeth straight across, with the grinder level. I also adjusted the grinder's guide plate so the grinding stone sat down lower in the gullet -- this changes the hook angle to around 45 degrees.

Once I had the tooth profile I wanted, I set the rakers down to about 40 thou, instead of the usual 25 though. This worked great in Western Red Cedar, but it overloaded the engine in Douglas-fir and Birch. For those woods I'd set my rakers to 35 thou.

[twoodward15]

Excellent description and info Brucer.  Thanks.  I think I will go with that.

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

For any others who want to make a do-it-yourselfer mill, here are some pics.

Brucer,  I guess I bought the Malloff book about the time you did. 
I finally got a mill and a brand new Stihl 090 about 20 years later.
These pics are of a mill that I used to literally drool over back when.
The only thing I would change is the round rails.  This is the "Sperber Tool Works" mill.
The company has been gone a long time.

Phil L.

                             



                                                     

                                                         

[Brucer]

Brucer,  I guess I bought the Malloff book about the time you did. 
I finally got a mill and a brand new Stihl 090 about 20 years later.

I already had a Granberg mini-mill and a 70 cc Jonsereds when that book was published. With all that great information and a sore back from the mini-mill, I was ready to jump right into it. I finally got a band-mill 20 years later  .

But you know, the thing I like about the Alaskan style mill is that once you have a face established, all the boards are a uniform thickness, no matter how much the log moves as the stresses are released. And using Malloff's methods, the finish on the boards beats a bandmill any day.

I'd like to see the bandmills come with an option that allows the head to "float" and follow the top of the previous cut. Either that, or have a means of pressing down on the cant as it is being sawed to keep it tight against the bed at both ends. I've seen a guy actually walking down the top of a cant (it wasn't me!!!) to keep it pressed against the bed as the sawyer slowly ran the carriage down the mill  .

The only reason I switched was the production rate. It's not just the cutting speed that's an issue with an Alaskan mill -- the setup time is a killer.

[Brucer]

Excellent description and info Brucer.  Thanks.  I think I will go with that.

I'm glad it was clear enough  . Pictures would be nice -- Malloff's book is full of them, but there's copyright issues there.

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

Go ahead Brucer, twist the knife.    

(What I'm really wanting is a swinger - 10" Peterson WPF.)



Do-it-yourselfers:
For more details on the Sperber, go to the Chainsaw Forum.

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=13610.0


Phil L.

[DanG]

Hey Phil.  Any chance you'll make it to the Expo in Moultrie this year?  It's coming up in just a couple of months.  Lots of chances to see God's handiwork in some of His trees, there!   Better drink lots of water, though.  You could get dehydrated drooling over all them mills.

I'll be there, bouncing back and to from the Petersons to the Doublecuts, with a few side trips to Baker, Woodmizer and Lucas.  Sure would like ta get a look atya along the way.

[DonE911]

Hey DanG,  what are the dates for Moultrie this year..... 

I want to get it on the calander early... less chance of missing it again this year.

[DanG]

Oct 18-20.  Hope to see you there, too.  Great opportunity to see all the mills strutting their stuff.  We had quite a gaggle of ForestryForum folks there last year, and should be even more this time around.  Sure hope you can make it!

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

Dan G

I have written that in my little book this time.

It never fails that I hear about somebody's trip to Moultrie,
JUST AFTER IT'S OVER.

Phil L.

[DanG]

Well, ya got no excuse this time, BUDDY BOY!