Decisons..

[woodbeard]

I went ahead and started a new thread for this, but it's really kinda a continuation of this one: http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=13389.0

I have narrowed my search down to two mills, both used, both WM lt40. One is manual, with the log deck packace, the other is hydraulic, and would run about $120/month more in payments. If I were sawing full time, this would be a no-brainer- 3 more hours sawing per month. Even sawing part time like I will be doing, it seems quite feasable, but I am wondering if there are other operating costs/headaches that come along with a hyd. mill that I am not seeing? The hyd. mill also has a debarker, which will save me some $ in blade costs, but how much? It's a sweet deal, and I'd kinda hate to pass it up, but I'm already a bit nervous taking on more debt as it is. I wonder if I might just be better off with the manual version. Simpler is sometimes better, but does that hold true in this case?  With the loading ramps/winch and toeboards, it is still a big step ahead of where I am now. It meets all of my basic criteria, but when I think of all that hydraulic gear....       Am I just dreaming, or what? 

[Tom]

My mill was a  hydraulic and I wouldn't have done anything different, especially once I started working it. 

You are still a young fellow and willing to mindlessly "attack" laborious jobs.  But, the time will soon com when you will be glad that you have a hyraulic loader and turner.  Believe me, they are worth their weight in gold.

You may begin sawing more than you are now.  If you do, you will have a lot more profit potential witht he hyrraulic mill.

There are some maintenance overhead's that aren't on a manual mill.  The hydraulics are over electric and that means brushes and switches.  You will get used to it and just consider it part of the system.  The design hides the hoses pretty good and you won't be breaking them.  The most vulnerable are the loader hoses.  You just learn to be careful.

If you are close enough that it is difficult decision between the manual and hydraulic, as far as economics,  Don't even hesitate.  Get the hydraulic mill.

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Gotta agree with Tom. We wood be blowed up without Hydraulics. If you have never tried to roll a large log, especially uphill, you will love the Hydraulics.

  Can't even imagine how long it wood take to put a 24" Oak log up a ramp, by hand or hand winch.

[Don R]

I don't think there is any question here. If you buy the manual mill, you will always be regretting not having the hydraulics. If you buy the hydraulic you will make the extra payments, because you have to. you won't have to work any harder the hydraulics will make up the time and effort for you. Remember if you build it they will come. Well I think if you have the hydraulic mill the work will definately be there, and you will have the strength to handle it. I say "suck it up and go for what you really want, leave the regrets for someone else" Don

[Brad_S.]

I've never regretted going 'more than I need' but I've often regretted 'good enough for now'. Hydraulics make a huge difference in production and your physical stamina (especially, as Tom mentioned, down the road a ways ). I think it makes milling safer because you don't have to wrestle logs as much. My first mill didn't have a debarker, this one does and it makes a great difference in blade longevity, I would think even more so on a WM where you're always cutting on the dirty face,
I feel your concern about increased debt, but I vote with the others. Go hydraulic.

[Minnesota_boy]

Before you buy a hydraulic mill, find yourself a 20 foot long 18 to 24" log and roll it uphill on  hot day.  After doing that a couple of times, the hydraulics become a no-brainer.  Spend the money now and reap the rewards down the road for years.

[Rockn H]

I have to agree with the rest of the guys.  If it's close enough that it is a hard decision go hydraulic.  I usually regret buying "good enough for now" about 5 min. after I do it.  I have a manual without a debarker, and I take time to prep any dirty logs.  I usually do it as I decide how I'm going to open it up, so I don't notice any time loss there.  I'm sure there is, I just don't notice it , and it's when we can catch a breather.  Unless the logs have been drug through the mud.  I mean 1/2 coating, I usually get close to mbf/blade.   As to the manual winch.  It doesn't seem to take a lot of manual effort, but it would be faster with hydraulics.  When you have 10 or 15 logs piled up that's a lot of breathers you are losing.

[GF]

I agree with the rest hydraulics is a life saver along with saving time.  At the end of the day you will be glad you had the hydraulics and still wish other manual tasks you do could be powered by hydraulics.

Good luck in your choice.   

[HORSELOGGER]

I believe if you do not go with the hydraulic mill, you will find that you have not really made your life any better over the Peterson mill. Remember ...on the manual mill, the log loading and positioning will all be manual, just like w/ the swing mill, but now you are cutting much slower, rehandling material to edge and handling big slabs and flitches that you dont handle now, plus going through more $ for blades and the associated issues that go with them. With the LT40 hydraulic, you will at least be happy to have the labor savings, plus if it does not work out to your liking, I think it will be an easier mill to move back out of .Good luck to you

[ronwood]

woodbeard,

One of the things that I looked at was the safety issue. With the hydraulics you can stay away from the log when turning it. Also is a lot easier to turn. On the smaller logs it sometimes easier to turn by hand. If the mill your looking at has the 2 plane clamp it comesin  handy flipping the cants and holding them down. I don't regret getting the hydraulics.  Sure helps by the end of the day.

I also have the debarker. It saves me quite a bit of time from cleaning the logs. Kirk Allen posted sometime ago that it increased his number of bd ft cut to I believe around 200 between sharping.  The only time that it has a hard time is with Walnut that has all its bark and the mud is frozen.

Ron

[TexasTimbers]

Don't make the mistake I did. I thought since I had a loader I didn't need a hydraulic mill, but there is so much more to it than just loading. Turning and leveling the log to box the hearts is a major time consumer without hydraulics.
Unless you are cutting smallish logs, and only on occassion, then you will regret not having gone hydraulic.
I bought a manual circle mill app. the same time I bought my LM2000, and after using the manual Lumbermate bandmill, and realizing what a mistake I'd made, I didn't even bother to set up the manual circle mill. I just recently bought an all hydraulic/electric circle mill and will sell the manual one.
If you can't afford to go with the hydraulic machine I'd say just save up intil you can. The logs will still be here when you have enough to do it right.
I bought the manual mills and now I have to buy the hydraulic ones too and sell the manual band mill for alot less than I paid for it or just eat it. I can get what I paid for the used manual circle but the LM 2000 will be a loss.
Go with hydraulics. Just trust us on this one.

[Sawyerfortyish]

Shoot the works  Go for gold. Your back will thank you at the end of the day. I spent 18yrs with a manual circle mill. Now I have a mill that I can sit in a seat and watch the logs go by and lumber fall off.  I wish I had started with this 24yrs ago. Used to saw 2000ft a day with my manuel mill with help and busted my @ss doing it. Now I can saw twice that and more in an afternoon. GET THE HYDRAULIC MILL YOU WON'T REGRET IT.

[woodbeard]

Wow.. Consensus.. on an internet forum?  
That's gotta be a sign.
Thanks, I guess I really just needed some affirmation that I wasn't just lusting after all the bells and whistles. Well, I am   but it's not like heated seats and gold plated hubcaps. Gotta keep things in perspective, right?
Well.. just one more person to convince, now.

[tnlogger]

just tell her it'll make that honey do list easyer 

[Part_Timer]

Wood beard

go to my gallery and look at the picture of my son and I loading that 35" on the LT15.  Now figure even if you have a loader you need to turn that monster at  belt buckle level on a LT40.
     My boss has a manual LT40 and I helped him load and turn some of those 24" monsters and I'm saying go for hydrolic.  It's gota be safer and that is what counts most in the long run.
     Just my .02

Tom

[woodbowl]

Woodbeard, sounds like there are no regrets out there when it comes to HD vs manual. I remember when I converted my manual WM lt40 to hydraulics. I told a fellow sawyer friend that I wanted to leave my manual dog hole position member welded in place, just in case my hydraulics failed, I would be able to keep sawing by using my manual dog. ...........He  said, oh no.......once you get used to these hydraulics, when your hydraulics go down, you will be off to get them back up and running. You won't be fiddling with any of that..............He was right!

[woodmills1]

By the way it is always roll the log uphill, hydraulics or not.  DO NOT  stop at the manual ifin ya can gets one with fluid.

[D._Frederick]

I don't know how old you are, but with a manual mill your back is going to take a licking and it get worse with age.

Also, the de-barker is worth its weight in gold, it will almost double the amount of time on a blade before needing sharpening.

I think that you will have less problems of selling a used hydraulic machine and it will hold it value better.

[Brucer]

I "upgraded" from running a hydraulic LT-40 that someone else owns to running a manual LT-40 of my own.

If you are sure you've got enough demand to keep the hydraulic mill going full time then hydraulics are definitely the way to go. Also be sure you've got enough towing capacity to handle the extra weight. I went manual because there isn't enough demand to support another full-time hydraulic mill around here.

Some of the less obvious advantages of the hydraulic mill ...

You can shove flitches onto the loader arms and easily reload them for edging. With the manual mill the clamp handle gets in the way, they tend to slip and slide down the ramp, and the lugs on the ramps chew up the faces.

The rollers on the hydraulic toeboards make it much easier to position a log along the mill. This is really important if you're cutting long logs (close to the mill's capacity) or very short logs.

The hydraulic mill let's you correct positioning mistakes very quickly because you're standing in one place. On the manual mill correcting a mistake often means walking down both sides of the mill.

I looked the advantages of buying a debarker vs. buying a sharpener/setter. If sharpening is going to reduce your sawing time, then you're better off investing in the debarker. In fact, the debarker is right at the top of my list of "things to buy as soon as the money starts coming in"  .

[Furby]

Well......
As a smaller manual mill owner, I think you should get the manual mill!









NOT!
If the extra $$$ isn't going to put ya in a real bad bind, SPEND THEM!