tires as bandwheels

[DragonsBane]

 is there a way to shape the tires to get a crown? maybe mount a grinder on a shaft to get them shaped? the reason I ask is if it is possible to shape the tire then a larger tire could be used thus relieving some of the fatigue on the bandblades.

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Tires will crown when ya air 'em up. We used NEW taars. If we were to do it again, we wood use used taars. The high tread works well on a 1¼" blade, but, wood not work very well on a 2" blade. SOME taar stores will peel the tread for ya.

[Rod]

Flas,so are you saying that these blades wont work on tires?

http://www.toolcenter.com/Lenox/woodct.html

I was just about ready to get me one of  those 2 x .042 (.072)

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Never said that.    With taars, any soap or oil will make the rubber slick and then sticky. Buildup on the blade will be terrible.

  Get used taars, even if there is nearly canvas showing.The rubber on the outside is for road wear. It does little for strength. The CANVAS is the strong part of the taar.

  I can show you a homemade mill, that runs a 5" or 6" blade. He used 8 lug hole wheels and taars. Canvas is showing. He has run nearly a million ft of lumber through this mill. Never had a taar problem. He can use a little soap, as the Heart Pine down here is VERY sappy.

  I try to post what we have learned, doing things differently. D. Frederick talks about vibration. We DO have a little vibration. I adjust the engine speed a little, and the vibration goes away. One tire (idle) has a slight mis alignment. Does NOT matter. The Blade runs true.

  WM uses a LOOSE belt on the band wheels. Don't tell me these do not cause vibration. It is supposed to shake the sawdust out of the grooved V pulleys.

  I wood not have any problem using taars with a 2" blade. Put 60 PSI in 'em.   WHY do you justify the 2" blade ??  Maybe I can learn sumpin. 

[Buzz-sawyer]

Deadhead
Are you sayin the worn tires will give a wider crown area for a wider blade?
Also do yo recon no adjustment is really necissary for camber on the idler side?

[Rod]

well Deadheader,they told me to run the blade tell it was wore out then just throw it away.I was thinking that I wouldn't have to change the blades as often and I'd save on sharpening.The blade for my mill 12' cost $132 .I just was thinking that carbide is worth the cost,but i don't know for sure.Also I don't cut any trees that have metal in them.A 2''x12' blade is about $40.I've never use a 2'' blade but I was thinking that I would be able to cut alot faster with it also.So wath do you think?

[DragonsBane]

 Good deal. I gots a plenty used taars 'roun hare. Just gotsa pick a couple or three. Now mabee I needs ta get fabrikatin.

[Rod]

Oh,any another thing.The trees here dont have any sap that builds up on the blade.

[Tom]

Rod,
I would think twice about that much money for a blade. Will the back hold up long enough to make the extra expense worth it?    Blades will break regardless of the configuration of the tooth.  It's the back that is holding the whole thing together.

I think you need to shop around for some better blade prices too.  You should be able to do much better than what you list.

The width of the blade is dependent on the size of your guides as well as the width of bandwheel, assuming you were using standard wheels.    You may get away with using a 1 1/2 inch blades with a 1 1/4 setup but you won't get away with a 2 inch blade on a 1 1/4 setup.

[Rod]

Tom,I haven't really sit down and crunched the numbers.I might need to do that.But they say the bade will last 6 time longer then the other blades.

So does anyone know if you can cut faste witha 2'' blade?

[Rod]

Tom,I have car tires for wheels and the guide are just some car bearing.I can use washers if I need to make the giudes wider.

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Buzz, Taars will crown when aired up. Under strain from the blade, they May try to flatten a little. I haven't got a high speed camera to verify this. All I am saying is, they crown metal wheels so the blade runs in the middle, why not taars ??  If the taar flattens too much, the blade should crawl, ours does not.

  Camber needs to be done right, when you build the sawhead frame. We adjust the toe in-out with the extra bolt, when we tension the blade.

  Rod, We use 15'-8" blades, 1¼". $20.00 each. No Carbide. I spoke with 2 blade reps at Sawlex. They both stated, "If you de-bark, Carbide will last". I asked about grit, Silica and other gritty stuff. Carbide will dull, then you have to force it. Too rich for my blood. The guy with the 5"--6" blade, swages his, no side set. He tried to talk me into that, but, I don't agree with that with narrow blades.

 With a homemade mill, unless you are very skilled and can engineer to a high degree, a homemade mill will not give the production speed of a quality manufactured mill. We do very well, but, we did not spend a fortune, so, we can saw a little slower. Never ran a WM, so, the numbers Arky and others post, impress me. Also, we do a lot of big, very wet logs, so, we need a break along the way.

  When I saw, I can bog the 24 HP Honda, as well as anyone, so, how much faster can you go   3 belts, 50 HP, you can saw faster. 

  No sap buildup, eh What brand of trees ya got ?? I'd really like to know.

  Tom's post I agree with. Only thing I will add is, larger dia. = longer blade life. We don't tension quite as high as WM, so, we sharpen blades down to under 1" wide, till the gullets sing on the rollers, and the set is nearly knocked down by the roller guides.

  I built roller guides from bearings. They would get rusty from water running on the blade and shell out. Replaced them with Cook's roller guides, and we get excellent mileage from them. Overgreasing will cause bearing failure. Learned that from Bibbyman and Mark M.

  Building your own mill is a great feeling, especially if it works when yer done. Several FF members have seen our mill run. Noone gave the thumbs down. WE were fortunate to have the insight to study designs and ask questins. That's why I try to help others.

[Rod]

Deadheader,I don't cut any grity wood,and the wood around here is just the stuff that grows here in West Virginia.So wil the 2'' blades cut fast.er tho?

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Rod, never get sand ground into the bark from felling or draggin?? What about mud ??  More HP will saw faster, no matter what size the Blade.
  Got Red Cedar ??  Got Ash ?? Got Pine of some sort ??

[Tom]

Rod,

The wider the blade, the more beam strength available so the more horses you can apply to it.

It's the Horsepower that gets you the speed.

The wider blade will be supported in the kerf better though and that will lead to a more stable blade and less waviness or following the grain.

It takes more horses to drive a longer or wider band too.   You have to overcome this before you will recognize any benefits.

[Rod]

Tom,I have plenty of power.I'll like to be able to use all of it is the reason I wanter to go to a 2'' blade,and I really don't know how much it would cost to get a plain 2'' blade resharpened

FDH,I clean all my logs and i cut oaks,hemlocks, beech,poplar and a few other kinds.No cedar tho

OK,lets me crunch some numbers.say $20 for 1 1/2'' 7 plain blades wil cost $140

1 carbide blade cost $132

get the plane blades resharpened every1000 feet at the cost of $6x3 $18 x 7 =$126 + 7 blades $140 total=$226

So it looks like if I can get half the life of a plain blade($226) it would be worth it.I was think that with the wide blade you could feed faster.

So do you see anything wrong with my figurings?

[Furby]

Yup, sure do!
The first time you put on a new blade and start taking off teeth from hitting too much metal, you'll think otherwise on those carbides.

My 12' Munks in a box lot came to just under $15 each with shipping.

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Noone is forcing you to give up, Rod. We are just giving you facts, from things that we have all experienced. Someday, you will hit metal. There is no way around that. Damage one blade and there goes production, until you can order in another. We have over 40 blades. Tom has hundreds. So has Arkansawyer and many others.  We have these for a reason.

  Buy that one carbide blade. It's ok with everyone here. Better get something for backup, when that one blade breaks.

  I did what I wanted, against some good advice, and got away with it. You might too. 1½" blades work very well. We have 2 of them and do not change the roller guide to accomodate them. They are used strictly for Heart Pine.

[Rod]

Deadheader,I might just try one those for a test run.I remember when carbide blades came out for  circular saws and all the other carpeneters thought I was nuts for buying a carbide blade.They would sharpen those plain circular saw blades and take them to the job sites with them and I'd just take my 1 caubide blade with me.I was cutting wood while they were changing blades,and then after work they'd go home and spend time resharping their dull blades.Now days I wont run a circular saw witout a carbide blade,I might be te same way on a bandmill,but maybe not too.I don't know yet.

[Dan_Shade]

if you can afford it, try it out, I wouldn't want to just have one band, though.  I know how I work, sawing off clamps and backstops and whatnot 

[D._Frederick]

Rod,

I don't know what make of mill you have or the diameter of your band wheels, but unless they are 25 inches or bigger, that carbite blade is going to be costly to run. You will get the same run time out of it as the low cost blades before it work hardens and breaks.

The only way you will come out on a carbite tipped blades is if you are sawing high priced wood that has minerals in it that will dull other blade too fast.

The other problem is your mill has to be "fool proof" or some time you are going to hit metal and it is good-by blade.

[leweee]

Rod,

I don't know what make of mill you have or the diameter of your band wheels, but unless they are 25 inches or bigger, that carbite blade is going to be costly to run. You will get the same run time out of it as the low cost blades before it work hardens and breaks.

The only way you will come out on a carbite tipped blades is if you are sawing high priced wood that has minerals in it that will dull other blade too fast.

The other problem is your mill has to be "fool proof" or some time you are going to hit metal and it is good-by blade.

Rod

D. is right.....circular & bands are two seperate animals....forget the carbide & buy a sharpner & setter....You will be money ahead in the long run IMHO

[tnlogger]

 now first off i know nothing about band blades other the what i've read here and running a few mills.
but i have used carbide teath on circlesaws. and they are prone to chip if you run into trash.then you have to replace them. crome or steel teath can be swedged and sharpened.
 so i guess my quition is how do you replace a tip on a carbide band blade or would you just thow it away?  Rod if you get one keep track of the production and such and let us know . You might be onto something here. 

[Rod]

tnlogger ,id say it would be like a circular saw blade,you just throw it away.Do you resharpen circular saw blades.you can buy carbide blade for circular saws for about $5

D,I have a Turner bandmill with car tires which means you never break blades.Like Deadhead said,he sharpened his so many time they can't be sharpened anymore because there so narrow there hitting the guides.

Also I don't really want to buy a sharpener and spend my time sharpening blades either.

I'll get one and see if its any good and I'll give my review on it.

Also I all ready have a bunch of reguler blades for back up.

[tnlogger]

rod i understamd that but i was talking about them 56" circle saws on a circle mill.

[Rod]

Oh,ok tnlogger,i get it now..

[Rod]

I was thinking also that with the carbide blades i wont have to spend tme changing blades as often which means your saving time and money.

Just another thought,,