Gig back and blade stoppage

[Brad_S.]

I didn't want to hi-jack Woodbeards thread any more than I already had, but I was interested in Tom's answer to my question on why WM owners power down and stop the blade to gig back.

Here's Tom's reply:

Stopping the blade to Gig the head back.

Wood Mizer taught us to stop the blade, years ago, because of a number of reasons.

1.   It saved the blade when the theory was that a blade had only a certain number of revolutions in it before it began to work harden.

2.   It prevented the blade from being pulled off of the bandwheels.  There is nothing to stop this from happened on gig back if you accidentally hit something.  It was perceived to be a safety procedure for this same reason.

3.   Many times, an off-bearer would be removing lumber from the rear of the mill rather than the hitch end.  Again, stopping the blade was a safety procedure to keep the off-bearer's hands away from a spinning blade and to keep him out of the 15 foot danger zone assigned as a safety zone.

4.   Stopping the blade allows the head to be gigged back by dragging the blade through the kerf that was just cut rather than raising the head over the board.  By coming back through the kerf, the sawyer can cut several boards without removing any.  This allows entire small cants to be cut without off-bearing and saves a lot of steps for a sawyer working alone.  It also saves the lengthy procedure of raising the band over several boards.  You can usually get a couple of boards cut before the weight stops you from gigging back through the kerf. (this requires that you stop the blade before it exits the cant).

Tom,
Thanks for the feed back. Do you follow these same practices with the Baker?

How about others. What brand mill are you running and do you stop the blade and return in your cut or do you raise up and return over you last board? Do you do it to save blade life, as a safety procedure, or because everyone else does it. I'm always interested in how others do things and why. Thanks.

[Tom]

No, Stopping the blade on a Baker is a several minute thing.   There are no brakes for the band wheels, nor are there on a lot of other manufacturer's mills.

It has generally been found that running the blade all of the time is negligable wear and tear on the blade if the blade is running true to begin with.  Even Wood Mizer teaches procedures to run  the blade consistantly.

Drag Backs will only work if you raise the head, and that raises the blade, so hitting the cant is minimized and the blade can continue to run.  That doesn't stop you from hitting bark, splinters limbs and other trash that may find itself in the way though.  So safety is still a factor and no one should linger around the blade side of the mill on anybody's mill.

The use of hydraulics has speeded up the  raising of the head and Electric heads have improved to speed up their raising too.  This helps to do away with the time lag that a sawyer found to be so disconcerting when he was raising the head for gig back.  Times and procedures change.

Not many mills have band brakes on them.  Wood Mizer is one of a very small community.  Without band wheel brakes  the option of stopping the bandwheels frequently is a moot point.

For safety reasons involving the spinning blade I discourage off-bearing from the blade side of the head and prefer that all materials be removed from the "blade entry" end of the cant.    A broken band blade not only sends out shards of metal but can twist and turn in front of the mill like a sapling in a wind storm.  It's not a good place to be. 

[Brad_S.]

Thank you, Tom.

[pigman]

On my WM super I oftentimes leave the blade running on gig back.  I have been told the faster up and down motor and the gig back motor on the super makes stopping the blade unnecessary. I do stop the blade when turning the log.

[Jeff]

THe more time I get on mine the more I dont pay attention to stopping the blade all the time. I go by the situation. I stop the blade to turn the log. I usually let it run if I am simply gigging back to start another cut, if i already have in my mind what I am going to cut. If I am undecided as to what my next move is as I finnish a cut, I usually stop the blade.  I really dont feel thought that my actions count as I only have a few hundred feet under my belt.

[Tom]

I don't feel so bad now.  I still measure my belt by inches.

Jeff, where you will notice a difference is if you pull that handle everytime for 10 years.  You will begin to have shoulder problems.

[Jeff]

Am I the only one that uses both hands to pull it?

[Tom]

I'd have used my legs if I could have gotten them up there.

[pigman]

I stop the blade more now that I got the auto clutch.

[steveo_1]

      I only stop the band when turning or loading a new log,it takes too much time to stop and start the band for each cut.When im cutting a cant i dont remove my first board til I'm bout halfway through the 2nd one, then ill let the saw finish it while my offbearer or myself removes the first one,all done from the rear of the headrig, this way nobody has to be near the blade while its turning,or while the head is moving back.It seems to me that starting and stopping the band everytime would be more stressful on the machine,not to mention the operator.
My friend has a new LT40 electric,everytime he engages his blade the head rocks back and forth, is this typical for a Woodmizer?  This is the only one i have ever seen run.Looks like that would be wearing something out.

[mike_van]

My mill's 3 phase electric, I have no clutch. I push the stop button at the end of every cut, pull the board off, back the head up, reset the cut height and push the start button.  Why? Just my habit, got used to doing it that way. Early on [14-15 years ago] I pulled a few blades off the wheels [with it running] Any thing I need or want to do between cuts is safer with the blade off.  Many times the  teeth that are set down will just tick the cant on the way back, with the head running, I always felt this would dull those more than the ones set up. Make sense to anyone? 

[woodbeard]

Jeff, where you will notice a difference is if you pull that handle everytime for 10 years.  You will begin to have shoulder problems.

Well, I hope I'm not hijacking Brad's thread here,  but I am curious as to what this lever does- is it a clutch of some sort? Is it just a Woodmizer thing, or do other mills have some variation of it? Are some easier to operate than others in terms of possible repetitive motion injury? This is something I would like to avoid. I know that any such control system has the potential for it, but I wonder if some are particularly hard on the body?

[DanG]

WB, from what I've observed, some Woodmizer models engage the drive belt by raising or lowering the engine.  This is done via a lever that is sorta stiff to pull on all the time.  If you're thinkin' of changing over in order to save your back, you might want to avoid these models, or upgrade one of them to the auto-clutch that Pigman mentioned.

[Fla._Deadheader]

  George, The WM's (some) use a lever to tighten the drive belt. A Tensioner, if you will. Problem is, you must PUSH the weight of the engine up, with your shoulder muscles.

  We built ours with the belt tensioner, but, we reversed the motion to push forward and down. Works like that "Slick Doorknob" thingy. A clutch would be neat, but expensive, I think ??

[woodbeard]

Ahh.. I think I get it now.
So, it seems as though the WM blade stop thingy ( what is the technical term? ) Has gotten a reputation as a shoulder buster, but maybe only because it is ( or was ) used constantly. Am I near the mark in thinking that if the blade is kept running on the return like the new method proscribes, it might not be a problem? Or is it still a bear even in intermittent use?

[twostroke_blood]

It seems to me that it would be nice to at least be abled to throttle the head down just in case the band breaks or some unforseen thing happens while the head is 20 feet away, and it would be safer too. I dont have the option of turning the motor off from where im standing (hydrolic head)

[Tom]

Actually, having a brake on the band wheels is a great feature.  You can stop the bandwheel almost immediately if you want.

Stopping the band after each cut was a philosophy.  I abided by it and still feel safer doing it.  I did suffer from repetitive injury from pulling that handle though.  Knowing what I know, I wouldn't be so determined to operate the same machine like that all of the time.  I would run the blade most of the time and take each board off as I cut it.   

Stopping the blade with a brake is still a mighty fine feature, I think.

....I still like the option of being able to bring the blade back through the kerf if I want.

[Ed_K]

I run a Baker EZ manual. I raise the blade a 1/4 turn after every cut. If I'm taking more than one cut on a side, I'll raise the blade to clear what was cut. I leave the blade turning and running open. If I'm turning the cant,I'll idle down but leave the blade turning. I turn with the head past the cut at the end of the track. When I am taking a board off to watch the face, I'll idle down. Only time I stop to blade is when I'm offbearing the cant and loading the next log. Sometimes I even shut down the engine after idleing for a few minutes if it looks like its going to be a bear to load the next log  . Oh, I have a brake on it  .

[Jeff]

Here is why I have repetitive stress injuries.
http://www.forestryforum.com/media/sawing.mpg

I never stopped a saw gigging back on this mill.

[Tom]

If you'd have stopped that saw dead at the end of the cut, the building would have turned over from the torque. 

[Percy]

Here is why I have repetitive stress injuries.
http://www.forestryforum.com/media/sawing.mpg

I never stopped a saw gigging back on this mill.

Aye carrumba, the feed rate and gigback are nearly the same 

On the brake thing, Im old school I guess as my old LT40 would stop the blade almost instantly when I released the "lever"and I liked it. My Lt70 takes about 5 or 6 seconds to stop. (This can be adjusted but the system has many adjustments and to keep everything in balance, this stopping speed works best). I really miss the quick stopping speed as I cut alot of WRC and there is always bark/shards/yadda that would removeyalate the blade if it was still spinnin. Takes more time to either lift the head higher or  wait for the blade to stop and use the dragback

[Larry]

One I get the good boards off a walnut log lot of times I’ll cut the cant straight to the bed and never stop the band.  If the cant only has 3 or 4 boards in it I won’t off bear either till I’m to the bed.  Just seems lot faster to me...would really be fast if my up motor ran as fast as some mills do.  Got an effective brake...they got it hooked to the engine belt tension lever so as soon as I clutch the band stops.