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Author Topic: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment  (Read 881287 times)

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Offline Paul_H

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #300 on: November 14, 2002, 05:34:15 pm »
Steve,
In most cases,the operator can spot his own logs.If he can't,the hooker has a radio to guide him.It also speeds things up in the landing,by not having to drop the logs,and slack the lines,and have the chaser run in and unhook the chokers.
If there is poor deflection,the dropline carriage is used,or in extreme ground,the butt rigging is used.Both require chokers
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Offline Tillaway

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #301 on: November 15, 2002, 11:46:59 am »
Paul
How does production compare to your drop line rigging.  I'm trying to figure why I haven't seen any working in Oregon or Washington.  One of the reasons I can think of might be the limited yarding distances.
Making Tillamook Bay safe for bait; one salmon at a time.

Offline Tillaway

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #302 on: November 15, 2002, 11:52:34 am »
I don't have any pictures of the 527 yet.  I'll try to get some next time I see one.  I was told by someone that operated them that they really excell at skidding but don't work as well as a regular dozer for earth moving.  It has something to do with the weight balance.
Making Tillamook Bay safe for bait; one salmon at a time.

Offline Paul_H

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #303 on: November 15, 2002, 07:52:57 pm »
Tillaway,
The grapple will out produce the dropline in most cases,especially up to 700-800'.Faster turns,faster landing,no crew to scramble out of the way.Even faster hanging on the excavator.If we are in small wood,and out 800-1000',then it's usually better to fly 3 or 4 chokers on the carriage.

I wonder if the drop carriage is used more in the States because of the thinning and shelterwood systems?I also noticed more Longline shows.In our district,we have more for small patches,and guts&feathers left by the bigger outfits that came through before us.
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Offline Tillaway

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #304 on: November 15, 2002, 09:44:42 pm »
I think your right Paul, it's the partial cuts.  Road building is another, it's avoided whenever possible.  The blocks I was laying out up there had allot more roads  bisecting them.  We would have just put one road at the top or bottom in the states and long lined it.

I had the pleasure of working with a very sharp logging engineer for several years.  They take great pride in logging helicopter units with cable.  He used a 110' Berger tower with massive skyline extensions to do one near Happy Camp, CA.  They flew out the haywire with a helo and used a rock drill to bore holes in a cliff face to set bolts to use for tail holds.  There wasn't any trees on that side of the canyon that would hold.  I can't remember how far it was to the tail holds but I do know it was over a mile.  He did some serious pencil scratching to figure that one out.
Making Tillamook Bay safe for bait; one salmon at a time.

Offline Paul_H

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #305 on: November 15, 2002, 10:53:14 pm »
Tillaway,
That is a mind boggling distance.They must have had a block purchase to lift the skyline.Just the weight of the line alone,would be something,then to add the weight of the logs onto that,look out.Were there intermediate supports?

The rock anchors work well,but we always feel better hung on a stump.,Just a mindset I think.

Are there breaks/incentives for logging a heli block with a conventional system?
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Offline Tillaway

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #306 on: November 16, 2002, 04:28:21 pm »
No multispan, they were operating at the absolute weight limits.  I asked him about the wieght problem and he had it all calculated.  They had to buck the logs in the same mind set as on a helo unit to keep the weight within the working load of the lines.  By the way they had just respooled the yarder with fresh cable and, may haved been the swaged stuff but I DonT recall.  I asked him about the bolts as well and he said that they were stronger than any stump, of course he was in good rock too.

I was at the Oregon Logging conference a few years back and the manufacturer of Acme carriages was giving a seminar on long spans.  It was his belief that 90% of whats helo logged now could be cable logged.  He had a video of one his carrriages working rediculously long span 6000' or so If I remember correctly.  The yarder hit fourth gear sending the carriage out.  It was a 300' drop from the carriage to the ground.

Nearly avery cable logger does multispan and has long span capabilities, if you don't then you are very limited on the jobs coming your way.  

There's a significant financial payoff for logging helo ground with the long spans.  Company "A" bids on the timber sale as laid out for helo planning to use helo.  Thier bid on the timber will be significantly lower than company "B" that plans on getting creative with a cable system.

Have you seen the Eagle carriage that can go around curves?  It was also discussed in the seminar.  So now if you want to cable log in Oregon or Washington you need to be able to multi-span, long-span and go around curves. ::)
Making Tillamook Bay safe for bait; one salmon at a time.

Offline Paul_H

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #307 on: November 16, 2002, 04:51:24 pm »
We have been dragging our feet on doing any heli logging.There has been pressure from our District Manager at BCForest Service to access hard to reach timber.We have built road into some pretty tough spots,and have done a cold deck and swing in a block at North Creek.The numbers were run before hand,and it was worth it.

One reason we don't want to fly our wood is it would shorten up the season for our crew.Another is we have the equipment,and the manpower,but most of it would sit idle,while the helicopter company is making the money.Heli has its place,but not for us right now.

Do you remember the size of the Skyline(diameter).Berger is a pretty good yarder isn't it?

I haven't seen the Eagle carriage,but it sound interesting.Is it the Eaglet motorized carriage that is used down your way?
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Offline Tillaway

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #308 on: November 16, 2002, 08:15:28 pm »
I don't remember the size of the skyline, it's been a while maybe 1 1/4" but its just a guess.

The engineer that did the pencil scratching was also part owner of the mill and purchased that big Berger years before.  It was the biggest he could buy at the time.  He liked them allot and in fact and this yarder was pretty much the last of the really big iron running in the state in the late 1980's.  Part of their niche was contracting out to competing mills to log sale units that could only be done with the big Berger.

Yes Eagles, Acmes, and Boman come to mind.  I don't know which is more popular. They are all motorized carriages.

Heli is popular in California simply because yarders are scarce outside of Redwood country.  Also the loggers that do have them usually aren't interested in multi-span, long-span operations.  Also forest engineers are scarce here and the Foresters that write the Timber Harvest Plans are not real up on engineering so they don't write a skyline option into the plans.  Also CDF is not real sharp about logging systems either, so allot of cable units get flown needlessly (Columbia Helicopters is happy about that).

The last OLC I was at Canadian Air Crane put on seminar about selective harvesting high quality trees in really nasty places.  They would climb the trees and limb and top them then cut at the stump leaving a little strip of holding wood with wedges in the saw kerf to hold them up.  They hung a set of Esco graples horizontally form a Skycrane and grabbed the upright tree, gave it a wiggle and flew away with it.  The tree never hit the ground until it reached the landing.
Making Tillamook Bay safe for bait; one salmon at a time.

Offline Paul_H

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #309 on: November 17, 2002, 04:36:49 pm »


This was taken in 1987 from the tail block on the Skyline.We had a 071 Madill mini tower.The spar on the yarder was 42' high.The system we were using is what we learned as a North bend.The mainline comes out through the fall block,and up to the carriage block on the skyline.It allows us to side block along the skyline road,and take a larger swath.This ground was broken up,and had a sharp break at the backend,and a bad hump in the middle.This particular road was out over 1000'



This shot was taken up at the hump,looking back toward Mt Garibaldi.(dormant volcano)

Tillaway,
I have seen pics of that heli grapple system in a lumbermans magazine,interesting.Have you seen where they are flying disasembled hoe chuckers into heli blocks in pieces,then reasembling them?They chuck the block into bundles for the chopper.
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Offline Tillaway

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #310 on: November 17, 2002, 06:41:31 pm »
I bet it's a real bear to reassemble them in the block. Do they fly the under carriage first then set the house on top with the boom to follow?

Do you run your own D lines and use Logger PC?
Making Tillamook Bay safe for bait; one salmon at a time.

Offline Paul_H

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #311 on: November 17, 2002, 07:52:52 pm »


This is the machine I was refering to,not an excavator at all ::)
It belongs to Tymatt Contracting,here in BC.He contracts for Weyerhauser,Stillwater Division.These next two pictures are from Logging &Sawmilling Journal.They show the buncher being reasembled after it's components were flown in by chopper.




Tillaway,
We don't run our own deflection lines,that is done by our forestry consultant,John C Howe of JCH Forestry.He is based out of Squamish,but also does a lot of work on BC s mid coast.They didn't lay our skyline block out,it was done by a engineer by the name of Dave Cameron.He had cut the line off at a good point,but there was good wood just behind it that we felt was worth the extra rigging.

Logging Journal link
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Offline Ron Scott

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #312 on: December 14, 2002, 05:42:31 pm »
On The Road Again. Log haulers headed north on I-75. An empty passing a full load.


~Ron

Offline Ron Scott

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #313 on: December 14, 2002, 05:56:09 pm »
Log Hauler Names, noted on last trip up to western U.P.

"Animal"
"Flash"
"Gear Jammer"
"Not Satisfied"
"Spud"
"Hot Dog"
~Ron

Offline Ron Scott

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #314 on: December 16, 2002, 09:35:01 am »
Chip Van. Ready "to roll" with a load of fuel wood for the local Cogen. Plant.


~Ron

Offline Ron Scott

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #315 on: December 17, 2002, 06:06:33 pm »
Jonsered 2054 Turbo Chainsaw. Being rested on a stump while harvesting black cherry and hard maple sawlogs.


~Ron

Offline Ron Scott

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #316 on: December 18, 2002, 06:36:23 am »
Load Of Sawlogs On Way To The Mill. Hardwood sawlogs from the Newhouse Hardwood Sale; October 2002.


~Ron

Offline Ron Scott

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #317 on: December 19, 2002, 06:29:54 am »
Timberjack 240A Forwarder and Tree Farmer C5D Cable Skidder. Parked at the landing. Timber producers often have one of each type on the job. Harris Hardwood Sale ; October 2002.


~Ron

Offline Ron Scott

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #318 on: December 20, 2002, 04:21:39 pm »
Delivering The Equipment To Start The Logging Job. During the winter's first snow. Kendziorski Hardwood Sale; December 2002.


~Ron

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #319 on: December 21, 2002, 01:41:09 pm »
The Logger's Pick-up. A look at another one carrying the needs for the day. Kendziorski Hardwood Sale; December 2002.




~Ron