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Author Topic: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment  (Read 880929 times)

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Offline Clark

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #2900 on: March 22, 2015, 05:54:40 pm »
   ...This pine forest is part of what is known as the "Avenue of the Pines" on Hwy 46, it is all pine that was planted by the CCC in the 30's...

I'm pretty sure large portions of the "Avenue of Pines" were natural origin after a fire in the 1870-1880's. Maybe the block you are cutting was planted by the CCC? I'm not sure. I do know that they have a 7 acre chunk devoted to a long-term growing stock study and that spot (and surrounding areas) are fire origin and nearing 150 years old. Unfortunately they were not managed in any way until they were 70 years old so the largest trees are only ~28" DBH.

It would be interesting to know how many rings the stumps have on them...if you're not busy!

Clark
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Offline barbender

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #2901 on: March 22, 2015, 09:46:36 pm »
You know, Clark, that's very interesting. I don't know why I was assuming the CCC planted this stuff. The thought did cross my mind that the wood is pretty big for being 80 years old. Now you have me wondering- I will have to count some rings tomorrow ;)
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Offline barbender

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #2902 on: March 23, 2015, 09:20:00 pm »
Well @Clark, you were right on the money. I counted the rings on one log, 135+ :o It was hard to count some, there is a fire scar from the first 20 years, and the last 20 or so are really tight, so it could easily be 145-150. Before you brought this up, I was looking at a photo online of the Avenue of Pines online that looked to be from the 40's and the trees were quite large (makes sense if they were already 80 years old instead of 10  ::) ) Fascinating stuff, at least to me anyways ;)
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Offline Clark

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #2903 on: March 23, 2015, 10:19:41 pm »
Thanks for taking the time and counting. I've wondered how much of that pine is actually that old. I'd guess a lot of it is that old. It seems odd to have a stand of pure red pine that was naturally regenerated. I guess the birch and jack pine that came up with it died out 50-75 years ago.

You're not the first to think the CCC planted it. I heard a gov't employee (who should have known better) claim the same thing! Naturally they were claiming it was "bad" because it was "artificially" planted by man.

Also, please tell me this isn't for their climate change experiment...

Clark
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Offline barbender

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #2904 on: March 24, 2015, 08:45:18 am »
I don't know what the purpose of this harvest is, Clark. Now that I know how old this stuff is, I'm surprised they are harvesting it. I don't know what BA we are thinning to, but there are a fair amount of mini-clearcut/wildlife openings (or whatever their purpose is), if that adds any insight. On another note, I heard on the radio the other day that one of the agencies, I don't remember if it was the USFS or MNDNR, was doing some experimental patch clearcuts in black ash stands and replanting swamp white oak- trying to head off EAB and or climate change.
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Offline Gary_C

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #2905 on: March 24, 2015, 01:54:05 pm »
It was hard to count some, there is a fire scar from the first 20 years, and the last 20 or so are really tight,

There's your reason. It looks like those largest diameters you are harvesting are not large enough for the age of those trees.
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Offline Southside logger

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #2906 on: March 24, 2015, 03:24:10 pm »
It was hard to count some, there is a fire scar from the first 20 years, and the last 20 or so are really tight,

There's your reason. It looks like those largest diameters you are harvesting are not large enough for the age of those trees.

You lost me with that...
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Offline Gary_C

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #2907 on: March 24, 2015, 05:02:54 pm »
You lost me with that...

If you have 130-150 year old red pine, you should see a lot larger diameters than I'm seeing in the videos. Plus if the outer rings are very tight, it's time for a thinning.

Most likely the forester for the job has taken some bore samples and seen those tight rings and decided the stand either needed a thinning or a final harvest. So I suspect they are looking for some diameter growth with another thinning as it's unlikely they could get approval for a final harvest.
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Offline coxy

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #2908 on: March 24, 2015, 06:15:17 pm »
is the tighter growth ring better/stronger for lumber :-\

Offline Clark

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #2909 on: March 24, 2015, 07:02:15 pm »
Gary - I'm pretty sure this is part of the Cutfoot Sioux Experimental forest. "Normal" management is out the window, this timber is more for ideas to be explored and regimes to be tested.  Final harvest, I'm sure, only rarely applies here.

Clark
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Offline WDH

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #2910 on: March 24, 2015, 08:36:39 pm »
They will just die of old age and fall down and become beetle food.  Nature does not care. 
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Offline barbender

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #2911 on: March 24, 2015, 09:09:13 pm »
I'd hate to cut them all down, I know that. But I was looking at another block today that looked like it had a beetle kill in it.
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Offline Clark

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #2912 on: March 24, 2015, 11:07:04 pm »
Considering that most of the experts claim red pine won't respond to release after the age of 100 or that it won't live past 150 and they have shown on the Cutfoot Experimental Forest that neither of those claims are true, I too would hate to seem them all go. Plus, where else in North America do you have several thousand (well, at least 1K) acres of red pine over 100 years old? Granted, it would be awesome to see more silviculture practiced but we've got what they have arranged.

@barbender - I'm going to start another topic on the study you heard about. It's pretty interesting and since you live close to it I'd like to give you more details without having it buried in this thread.

Clark
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Offline barbender

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #2913 on: March 24, 2015, 11:52:14 pm »
     Like @Clark said, this timber covers a very large area. You drive through it for about  6 miles on highway 46, and that's just the part the highway goes through. It is truly beautiful.
     Gary, my point was that I don't know why the USFS is doing this harvest. Typical timber management practices may not apply, it could have been for toad habitat or something ::). They don't operate the way the other forestry agencies do.
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Offline Ken

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #2914 on: March 25, 2015, 06:28:08 pm »
Still a wee bit of snow here in the bush.  I just started a small job on the south end of a large field and alongside a public road..  The harvesting head is 4 1/2 feet tall for reference.  There are spots where it completely disappears when I reach for the butt of the tree.

 
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Offline barbender

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #2915 on: March 25, 2015, 07:14:17 pm »
Wow Ken! >:( We are snow free here, I think you guys out east got your portion, plus ours- and maybe someone else's too.
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Offline Ryan D

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #2916 on: March 25, 2015, 07:35:18 pm »
I measured over 5ft of snow in my field yesterday. Gonna be a while yet before I can get back to work.

Offline barbender

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #2917 on: March 25, 2015, 07:48:00 pm »
Hey @coxy, I forgot to reply to your question- yes, this slow grown pine would make some fine lumber, it is more stable than fast grown red pine. I'd really like to quartersaw some of it, I like the look of vertical grain pine.
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Offline coxy

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #2918 on: March 25, 2015, 11:14:37 pm »
no problem  :)

Offline 1270d

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Re: Timber Harvest Methods & Equipment
« Reply #2919 on: March 28, 2015, 12:20:13 am »
Thinning some hardwoods.  Mostly red oak in this clip.