first post, don't want to start any arguments

[brdmkr]

Greetings from a weekend sawyer-wannabe from the great sate of Georgia!

I want to purchase a mill to mill logs from my own land that I intend to use for my hobby woodworking, to 'upgrade' my home, and to sell a little on the side.  I may also start a part-time business sawing for others.  I do not intend to go full time, and I will really be just doing this as much for fun as anything (I actually enjoy cutting grass too).

I won't claim that I have ANY knowledge of saw mills, but I have been looking at the Lucas and Peterson mills.  I have seen several portable bandsaw mills, but I have never seen one of the swing blade mills.  Just looking at the swing blade models, I think that they may offer more for the type of sawing I will be doing than a band mill (seem to be more easily transported, handle really large logs, easily sharpened, set up over log without having to handle log, and for the price more bdf/day relative to band mills).  However, all of my assumptions are based on web-page ads.  While I am certain that these companies are honest regarding their products, I also know that to sell a product companies must put their best foot forward.

My questions (and here is where I don't want to start any arguments, but opinions are really appreciated) are:
1) are my assumptions concerning the swing blade relative to band mills correct?
2) are there significant differences among the entry level swing blade saws put out by Peterson, Lucas, and now D&L?
3) are there other swing blade saws I should consider?
4) for the type of cutting I am describing, would I be wise to reconsider and look at band saw mills in the $8000.00 range?

Thanks in advance for any and all advice

[Tom]

Don't get in a hurry.  Go to a show and watch them work.  Moultrie is in October and is one of the largest in the southeast.

1  Yes......   no..   a lot depends on the logs and the desired product.

2  Peterson and Lucas are similar.  D&L is a 4 post saw.   
    Mobile dimension is a beam saw.   
    All have similarities. 
    Each is different.

3.  There is one called BrandX 

4.  That's were the rub will come.   
     It depends on who you ask.   
     I want one of each.

[DanG]

Welcome, brdmkr!  Whirbouts in Ga are ya?  There's lots of opportunities to watch the different mill types working, within driving distance.  I'm running a Mobile Dimension Saw just over the Fla line, and you'd be welcome to visit any time.   Tom, who already replied, runs a big ol' Baker bandsaw in Jacksonville.  CustomSawyer has a Woodmiser bandmill spittin' out boards around the Dublin area.  GareyD is getting his MightyMite up and runnin' west of Atlanta.  There are a couple of members in Tennessee runnin' swingers.  As Tom said, all of'em will be struttin' their stuff at Moultrie in mid-October.  Take your time and figure out which type is best for your purposes.

BTW, don't worry about starting arguments here.  We've been through it before, and we understand that different folks have preferences for different types and colors.

[Captain]

Well rather than stir up anybody by fueling a swing vs band OR Peterson vs Lucas debate, I'll just say welcome and set back and watch.  It is actually kind of fun.

Ya know, DanG, I'm not sure we will be in Moultrie this year...you gotta call Teddles and tell her to git crackin'
 

Captain

[pigman]

Welcome brdmkr and DanG is slightly wrong about the argument thing. I don't think we have ever had an argument about any subject. We do sometimes have strong opinions that we like to support with powerfull words.   I can't give any advice on mills better than already been given.

[brdmkr]

I must admit that I did not expect so many replies so rapidly!  Thanks.  DanG, I am located pretty close to you.  I am in Bainbridge.  I wouldn't mind visiting with you sometime, I am sure I'd learn alot.

Again thanks for all opinions and I appreciate any other comments.  I am just now looking at older posts on swing blade mills.  Also, I look forward to meeting some of you in Moultrie.  I have never attended, but I'll do my best to be there this year!

[meazlejr]

brdmkr,
I am in the same boat with you so no advice or info from me.  Just wated to say that these guys have been super helpful and patient so far. 
Joe

[Bibbyman]

Welcome to the Forum brdmkr (what’a-be),

I’ve found out long ago when someone’s asks for your opinion,  they really don’t want your opinion,  they just want someone to agree with the decision they’ve already made.   

If you want to look at bandmills,  Wood-Mizer has a Service Center in Newnan, Ga.  I think that’s a little south and east of Atlanta.

Wood-Mizer - Newnan, Ga

[EZ]

What ever type of saw you get, dont forget to buy a LogRite cant hook. I bought one a couple weeks ago and its the best.
Get the blue one cause it works better. 
EZ

[Ianab]

Hi Brdmkr

1 - When you mention portable and big logs, thats what swingblades are best at. My mill can be towed on a trailer behind a quad bike, but can saw a 6' dia 16' length log.

2 - The entry level swingers are similar, I prefer the Peterson design, but Lucas machine gets the job done too. Peterson have more advanced models (automatic etc) that are very nice, but more pricey.

3 - Thats 95% + of the swing mills sold at the moment. 

4 - Not if you want to saw BIG logs. With smaller logs a manual bandsaw is a good option, but moving big logs manualy is not fun. With a swinger the log isn't usually moved while sawing. The idea of quartering a big log with a chainsaw before loading it on the mill just doesn't appeal to me. By the time you have done that I would have q-sawn the whole thing and be loading the mill back on the trailer  Swingblade sawyers LOVE 4' and 5' logs, easier than small logs, except for the offloader that doesn't get to rest while you load a new log

Dont confuse the lower price of the swingers with them being just a 'hobby' mill. At the NZ Fieldays there were a number of mills on show. If I remember right that was 1 chainsaw, 2 bandmill, 3 twin circle and 7 swingblades on show. Probably just a reflection on the big logs and rough countryside we have here, but they do work.

Try and see some mills working, see how they would work in with what you are trying to do. There is no one perfect mill, but there are several that will do what you want .

Like Bibbyman says.. you have decided you want a swingblade.. I think you are right

Cheers

Ian

PS. you will want a good cant hook too. Mine is red, but I'm sure a blue one would work too

[DanG]

I may be even closer than you think, brdmkr...only 21 miles from the by-pass around Bainbridge.   I'll PM ya' my phone #.

[brdmkr]

"I’ve found out long ago when someone’s asks for your opinion,  they really don’t want your opinion,  they just want someone to agree with the decision they’ve already made. " 


Not really correct on my having made up my mind.  I say that I am considering a swing blade, but I certainly have not ruled out band mills.  While I have seen a few band mills, I have yet to see either in operation.  Cost is also a big factor.  If you were spending around 8,000.00, and portability and ability to handle relatively large logs was an option, what mill would you recommend?  Also, though large logs will definately be a possibility for me, many of the logs will be smaller 12" or so.  Is there a mill in this price range that can handle both?

[Buzz-sawyer]

Since your asking for opinions
I would take $8000 to an auction and buy a fully automated circular sawmill and set it up........It will cut small logs, and pretty big ones too.

[Bibbyman]

Like Tom said,  each mill type has it’s advantages and disadvantages.  There is no perfect mill for every use.

While I’ve very pleased with the versatility of our Wood-Mizer band mill,  (we make from survey stakes to beams and boards longer than the mill),  it does not handle large and odd shaped logs very well.   Fortunately those logs are few and far between for us.  Other band mills will have the same restrictions (with the possible exception of a couple odd mills with extra wide throats).

We have support equipment to handle our logs so moving the mill to the logs is not in the equation for us.

[countrysaw]

i agree with buzz must be an illinois thing

you would not have to worry about turning logs by hand either, for that kind of money you could probobally find a circle mill with a log turner

and you would be close to your swingblade too, just a little bigger blade, and you dont have to push the blade through the log, the log goes through the blade

not very portable though, unless you want to buy a flatbed for a semi

zach

[Jeff]

I would much rather tackle a 40 inch+ log with a swing blade rather then a standard circle mill.

[Dan_Shade]

i can quarter a 36" log with a chainsaw in probably about an hour, counting setup time and all of that.

[Ianab]

many of the logs will be smaller 12" or so.  Is there a mill in this price range that can handle both?

The swingblade mills will saw 12" or less logs easy enough, just dont expect the production figures that you would get sawing 4ft dia logs. You seem to spend more of your time loading a new log and not enough actually making boards.  They will get the job done, but they dont have the clear advantage over a band mill that they have with big logs.

Cheers

Ian

[Ron Wenrich]

I never saw a swingblade mill until I went to a show.  I've been around a few bandmills, and still haven't seen a dimension mill at work.  The nice thing about a show is that they will actually let you run their equipment to see how you like it. 

Another option is to get videos.  Many of those companies produce a small video to watch their mill run. 

As for small logs, I don't know of any mill that can get production on them. 

[Ernie]

Welcome

You will never start a serious arguement here, we're all family.  You will get the odd difference of opinion but never any nasty stuff.

Have you considered a twin saw?  I dont seem to get as many propellors as with anything else when cutting tensioned wood.

That should spark a few comments

[sigidi]

brdmkr,

first of all welcome to the best place on the internet!!!

Secondly, if you want big log capability you have no other choice than a swinger really - I'm partial to my Lucas, but like Ian says, either one will do a fine job.

Also if you do get an opportunity to get some $'s from a custom job, you can pack up easy and get there without any hassles.

Small logs - Like Ron said no production in small logs, Like Ian said you can handle a 12" with a swinger, just depends on how much handleing you want to do for how much timber you'll get. Personally I will cut from about 12" up, but then I have a big list of required timber with building my house and can get something out of every board I cut

Keep us posted

[DanG]

Ernie, he'll be seeing a multi-blade mill soon.  Since he's only twenty some-odd miles from here I expect a visit real soon.   I ain't gonna try to sell him on my type of milling, but he's gonna buy a mill.  From this distance, I can smell it in the air!

[brdmkr]

DanG, you don't need much of a nose to smell my mill on the way .  I just need to get a handle on the best fit for what I want to do.  I'll be giving you a call as soon as I get some time away from the office (at a decent time of day).

[NZJake]

We chewed up those pesky 12" fieldays pine logs down in 5 minutes flat on the ASM (2x4, 2x6 @4m), under 2 minutes to roll the log under the high track and we were back into it, had to conserve the logs half way through the show though. Next year we're gonna take two truck and trailer loads.

Something we've added to the ASM is two centre supports for the high track with a solid 6m rail, this means you don't have to fiddle with a centre support when you load your next log.

Hey Ernie what does propellors mean ?

[customsawyer]

Welcome to the forum
I don't have much to offer that hasn't been said other than if you want to see a WoodMizer run you can come up to Dublin, and I will let you off load some lumber just for the experience. I won't even charge you anything for the knowledge.

[NZJake]

Ok, I'm a little slow. You mean twisted timber right . I think what your experiencing is a lot more to do with the type of log your cutting and how you cut open it.

On that note the swingers offer some advantages there, they deal with stress alot easier, not saying they will cut straighter timber than the twin saws (thats still down to the sawyer).

The truth is that they can cut stressed timber with alot 'less' effort. When a circular confronts stress wood, the timber gets pressed up against the blade contributing to heat up and horse power drain (blade heat up is the biggist factor).

On a swinger if one was to start cutting the vertical and experiences pressure against the blade, you could back out and confront it in the horizontal or the other way around.

Another option is that you could take your full horizontal/vertical in two seperate passes which would be easier on the saw. I found this to be all too important in Aus with their Ironbark gum trees etc (maybe thats why they have so many swingers of there eh?)

For a very light little machine they carry alot of horse power to that single little blade.

[sigidi]

Jake, I might be wrong, but I think Ernie was saying he cuts better (not worse) with the twin blade he has, ie. he doesn't have as many propellors.

Might be wrong?

Anyway on the idea of doing vertical cuts in two bites - do you find you do this? I would have thought you wouldn't be able to get all the way across the face of the log if you did two half depth vertical cuts, not sure as I havent' done two cuts in the vertical, horizontal yep, but not vertical 

[NZJake]

Sigidi, I have done this a fair few times cutting sleepers etc in tension logs. The ASM has a button for the raise and fall so in a matter of seconds the machine will be up and down, same goes with the WPF with the ellectric up/down installed (a little slower with the hand crank).

Cutting an 8x4 in the vertical cut... After experiencing tension in the vertical I would raise 4" cut through vertically, drop 4", cut the horizontal, finish off the full 8" depth vertically. My explaining might be a little hazy but believe me on the WPF etc it's very easy. I understand where you are coming from with walking to each winch for the raising/lowering on the Lucas (same goes for the ATS).

Still don't get the propellor thing?

[maple flats]

Not sure but maybe propellers are boards kicked out of the saw. My Peterson does not have this problem unless you are making first cut to level the top and don't cut a big enough piece. If you pay attention after first cut and see that it will be tiny, just back up, reset and cut a bigger piece. But that I think is why instructions say never let anyone stand directly in line with the log, only stand to the side and to the operator's right. The entry level Peterson is very easy for 1 person to operate and move but 2 is certainly easier. I have the Peterson ATS but got the 20 hp instead of 13. Works great, sharpens really fast but does not need it often if you keep your logs clean.

[Bibbyman]

We were at the Paul Bunyon show last fall and got to visit with the Perterson crew.  I got over on this side to take an action shot and was advised I shouldn't be there.

[Ernie]

I found that when cutting some of the younger eucalpts with the chain saw mill and resawing the slab into boards, the uneven release of tension I got by not cutting both the horizontal and vertical cuts at the same time led to things like a 6 meter long 4 X 2 that twisted drastically.  In the worst one, the ends were almost at 90 degrees to each other.  Hence "propellor"

I got the name from a post that I read quite a while ago here on the forum

I found it

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=5159.msg70071#msg70071

[sigidi]

Hey Ernie,

ya shoulda kept the secret, then heaps of folkes would have been thinking, that Ernie, he knows some stuff!!!

[Ernie]

On any official form where I am required to state occupation, I always put peasant, that way no one expects me to anything about anything, it usually works and unfortunately, it's usually true

[Tom]

Ernie,
Actually, I think, that just shows how little of the information on "official" forms is read.

[Ernie]

Tom
A few years ago, our daughter was applying for her wedding license and phoned home to ask what she should put in for my occupation.  As usual I said peasant.  Sha was marrying a young plastic surgeon and didn't think peasant was particularly appropriate.  I reminded her that she is a good Christian and bearing false witness is a no no but she could put what she wanted.  She called me a farmer

[Haytrader]

 

Ernie.

OH NO!!

 

[pigman]

 She called me a farmer

No higher honor.