Greasing Bar Sprocket

[tdelorme]

I did a search on greasing bar sprockets and realize that some folks don't ever grease um at all.  But, how do those of you that do grease your bar sprockets do it?  I bought a little pump greaser at Lowe's that is junk.  Don't know who makes it but it says "made in Germany" on the side.  Is there a better greaser out there that works, or do I just keep fighting with what I have now.  It does have that real purtty blue colored grease in it, it just don't work worth a darn.  Thanks for any help.

[Don_N6CRV]

Hello, I grease mine every time i flip the bar. The grease gun i have is like most i have seen but it is a older one made out of metal. With just 2 or 3 pushes it will have grease comming out of the bar. When it gets empty i just refill it. I have seen some that looks like they have a plunger on the back of the head that might work even better. My Stihl bar does not have the holes to grease it but i try to force some in buy filling the bar tip with grease.
Don

[Dan_Shade]

your grease gun may have air in it.  I have a cheapo grease gun that works well enough.

[Glenn]

I used to use the small puch type grease gun but never liked it.  Now I use a regular sized pistal grip gease gun with an adapter on the end that fits the grease hole on the sprocket.  I grease every time I refill the gas.

[Ironwood]

I use the same grease as for the end gear on my husky brush cutter/ weed wacker. I grease the sprockets occasionally, but grease the weed wacker frequently as I learned the hard way that the gears cost long dollars($144). REID

[slowzuki]

I'm a grease when I think about it guy.  Probably every good saw cleaning so every 10 tanks of gas or so.  I noticed you can look in and see the little roller bearings in the tip.

I used a little pump grease thing that kind looks like a fat screwdriver with a hot melt glue gun tip on it.  The tip seems to fit well in the bar hole.

[pallis]

I quit greasing my saw tips once I figured out I'm better off not doing it.  But, before then, I got some big horse syringes from the vet, along with some large needles, cut a needle in two and had a perfect grease gun for the saw.  They come in handy for getting grease into small places, so I still keep a few around.

[StihlDoc]

Greasing of the bar nose was more needed with the old saws that had manual push button oilers. The modern saws with auto oilers utilize the bar oil as the main source of lube for the bar tip bearings. It is more recommended to grease the tip at the end of the day to help push any debris/grit out of the bearings and coat the bearings with grease to keep them from rusting due to moisture and condensation that can form when the saw is not in use. The STIHL bars use a shielded bearing utilizing a thin metal plate on each side of the bearing to encase the bearing rollers. The metal shields keep much of the dirt out but allows oil to migrate to the bearings thus no need for greasing. The most common brand of bar tip grease guns from Germany are from the Hallbauer company.

[Fraxinus]

Years ago when I worked in the woods (the 1970s) I would grease the tip daily.  Now, I never grease mine and have been advised not to by people who should know.

[Striker]

 I have yet to wear out the bearings in the bar tips. I don't grease the tips. Moisture in the bearings hasn't been an issue either because some of the saws may set for a week at a time between uses and they don't get greased before they set. 
 Not saying don't grease them, just saying it might not be needed.

Jeff

[sigidi]

Righto then this is intersting,

I was greasing my sprocket when I first got my saw, went through all the grease in the little 'gun' I refilled it and wouldn't ya know, I lost it under an excavator track just after filling it up!!!

So haven't greased since.

Now my understanding of things mechanical is moving parts should have assisstance to move? Now my 372 has a little hole to grease, why whould I be greasing or not greasing? Some folkes here have mentioned used ot grease, no don't grease why? What's the rationale behind it?

Hey look I'm happy to keep going the way I am but, no-one has really come out and said why they have been advised not to grease?

[davefrommd]

I bought about 5 of those made in germany grease thingy's. Two of them didn't work as it looked like there was an air pocket near the tip inside sucking air instead of grease. They do work real good once you buy one that works. I would return your defect and get another one. Test it out before you leave either the store or store parking lot. Look for one that has 100% grease at the top of the cartridge inside where it pumps.  I usually grease my bar every time I gas up.  dave

[scottr]

Sigidi , several on another website have said that the reason for not greasing the sprocket tip is because the grease attracts dirt . In 16 years I have never greased my sprocket tips but I do use a couple drops of bar oil to lube the sprocket tip . I cut about 2 cords of hardwood firewood per year along with several sawlogs and storm clean up . Scott

[jokers]

Scott,

As you know, I`m a proponent of greasing the tips although certain bars, namely Stihl, do not allow this. I don`t buy into the argument that greasing tips attracts dirt. At the speed bar tips turn, centrifugal force throws most everything outward from the hub of the tip, including the bar oil that Stihl claims lubes their tips. Consequently I feel that it is a good idea to grease daily.

I do agree that most tips fail from damage from pinching or prying but I have had several tips on Stihl laminated bars and one on a brand new Windsor Mini Pro seize up with no apparent fouling from dirt or anything else.

I`ll continue to grease mine where possible.

Russ

[scottr]

Russ , twice in my rookie year I had a sprocket tip clog with so much grit that I had to flush it out with gas/oil mix to free it up . Thats when I started using the bar oil to lube the spocket tip . When I  lower the rakers and flip the bar (about every 3 sharpenings ) is when I oil the sprocket . Sometime there's grit in the sprocket oil hole that needs to be removed before oiling .                                                       Your saws rev higher than mine maybe causing problems , 13,500 rpm is my highest rpm saw .            I've mentioned it before and I'll mention it again , it would be interesting to open your failed bar and see what happened .                                                                                                                                Scott

[jokers]

Hi Scott,

I`ve had debris of some sort in the grease holes on a regular basis but have no indication that it`s entering the tip through that orifice. Of course I always remove the debris from the hole prior to greasing, but I do believe that greasing is pretty good for pushing crud out of the tip if you rotate the sprocket after each pump of the gun. How did you get so much grit in your bar tip? I can guess.

I do vaguely remember you suggesting that I should disect one of those siezed bars, maybe I`ll get to it soon. I looked at the Mini Pro today and it`s tip is locked solid with no visible debris. Pretty disappointing.

Russ

[scottr]

Russ , probably the combination of 3/8" low profile chain , punky chinaberry , and rookie sharpening probably caused the tip to lock up .                                                                                                          Have you thought about why the grit sticks in the the oil hole ? Certainly you've seen dirt stuck where grease or oil has been on a mower or tractor . Maybe another way to think about the grit is to say that the grease does not attract grit but what grit that does come in contact with the grease has a better chance of sticking . Then take the bar and plunge cut or make a full bar cut , I can imagine that it's possible to push some of the grit that is stuck in the oil hole into the roller bearing area .               Were you doing a lot of plunge cutting or full bar cutting with the bar that locked up ?                      Scott

[jokers]

Russ ,         

Have you thought about why the grit sticks in the the oil hole ?

   

Geez Scott, it`s beginning to sound like a little condescension here.

Certainly you've seen dirt stuck where grease or oil has been on a mower or tractor. Maybe another way to think about the grit is to say that the grease does not attract grit but what grit that does come in contact with the grease has a better chance of sticking .

So true Scott, also true of oily surfaces, especially high viscosity oils like bar oil.

What is also true in your stated scenario is that the greasy/oily surface is not a friction surface so a large amount of buildup can occur un-impeded.

In a tip/sprocket scenario, the constant rotation of the nose causes endless sweeping of the mating surfaces, and just like anywhere else where there is a pressure differential as is caused by the motion of the tip sprocket against the grit, the fluid which in this case is grit and some sort of lubricant, flows toward an area of lower pressure.

Most of my cutting is not plunging or bar buried so I would expect one low pressure area to be the grease hole which is effectively vented to atmosphere when the tip is exposed and the sprocket is rotating. This belief is based on the assumption that the crud is fluidized and that there is a flow restriction caused by the mating surfaces within the tip, as you might find in a new/newer tip. Once a tip is sufficiently worn in, all bets are off, but all of my failures have been on new or nearly new bars.

I have not forgotten that some grit could be introduced via capillary action, which incidentally would be greater with a more fluid medium to travel in, or that some grit could simply be swept inward, especially in the case of bore cutting. Since I`ve only had this type of failure on small saw bars which are rarely used for boring and I only added oil after the tips started binding, I don`t consider this to be the case.

It also seems apparent that the amount of grit introduced through the grease hole would be miniscule compared to the amount dragged in by the sprocket teeth and chain drivers although some of that grit will also be centrifugally expelled, especially when sufficient oil or grease is present to wet the chain and outer tip sprocket.

It`s my bet that the majority of oil that you apply to the tip is gone after about ten full speed revolutions of the tip where I could reasonably, I believe, expect the outwardly moving grease to be present much longer.

My theories expressed here are based on a healthy dose of spud farmer logic. Please feel free to enlighten me where deemed appropriate.

Russ

[scottr]

Russ , I think of a centrifugal force moving the oil or grease to the outside race or sprocket not a differential of pressure . I also think that the oil hole is large compared to the thin tolerance between the sprocket and the bar .                                                                                                                        I believe that the grease in the oil hole would hold more grit than would an oiled hole and the less grit that could possibly be pushed into the roller bearings the better . I've also used 30 weight motor oil to lube the sprocket tip rollers and have had no problems .                                                                         Scott

[rebocardo]

When my nose started to seize I found it was from sawdust that packed around the bearing AND I had squeezed the tip a tad. So, I opened up the nose a lot and by rotating the sprocket and using a paperclip and spray I was able to free up the packed dust around the bearing until it spun freely. Then I closed the nose up.

What I do now is flush the grease out, while rotating the sprocket, then wipe the mess up that comes out, which includes sawdust. When I cut dirty gritty stuff I dribble oil unto the sprocket and chain, let it sit a minute before starting the cut.

One thing I think made a big difference is someone suggested opening up the oiler holes on the bar. I did that and I think it really made a difference in oiling the bar better, which may help the sprocket too.
 
I have not had it seize since opening the oil holes and flushing it with grease. I do a lot of ripping (and saw milling) with my saws and this seems to work with me.

re:Stihl
The manual on my MS180 says it basically has a sealed bearing so there is no sense in greasing or oiling it, hence no hole.

I could probably get away without greasing it, but, greasing it helps drive out the saw dust so I think it makes the sprocket last longer without getting sloppy.