Where do I get some garlon 3a at?

[Rod]

I'm gona use it to kill ff som cull trees

[Wudman]

Forestry Suppliers lists it in their catalog.  Your local forestry herbicide rep should be able to get it for you as well.  I have done a lot of business with UAP Timberland in the past.  You may want to see if they have a rep in your area.

Wudman

[Rod]

Thanks, UAP Timberland has it.

[bitternut]

What size and variety of trees are you trying to kill Rod? I have had good luck with a hack and squirt treatment of eastern forest varieties. I buy 2.5 gallon jugs of generic roundup for about $45 and dilute it about 1/3 with water.  I use a hatchet that has been narrowed down and give the cull tree one whack for each 2" of dbh at about a 45deg downward angle. Then I use a small squirt bottle to lay a couple ml of diluted solution in the cut. This has to be done after full leaf out and before the leaves turn in the fall. The trees die standing. It works good on beech sprouts also since most of them are actually growing from the roots of a nearby large beech. Here is a picture of the tools I use for the job. A lot lighter than lugging around a chainsaw or a backpack sprayer. Much cheaper too.

[Rod]

Mostly I'll be killing beech about 3' dbh. And were do you get this generic round?

[Rod]

can you kill rhododendrons with that stuff? too

[bitternut]

Rod..........I buy the roundup at a local family owned farm supply and feed store. They also make fertilizer in bulk and a lot of the local farmers buy from them. I would assume that if they can buy and sell generic roundup it must be available in other places. It comes in 2.5 gallon jugs just like the Monsanto jug and is 41% Glyphosate. It does not have the surficant that roundup plus has but I add a couple ounces or so of liquid dish soap (per 25 gal.) as a spreader sticker. I have also sprayed it on fields at the normal 2-2/3 ounces per gallon of water and got the usual results. I know it is made by several manufacturers because when I bought some this spring they told me that they never know what brand they will be getting until the shipment comes in. It all has the same chemical formula as the original.

As far as killing large beech trees,  it works great and I would imagine it would kill rhododendrons also if applied in the same manner. I think the optimum time to apply is just before the leaves start to turn in the fall and they are sending everything down to the roots. This enables you to kill all the beech sprouts that seem to grow in clumps or thickets around large beech trees. I treated some beeches last fall on September 22 and they are dead now. I was curious to see just how late I could treat a tree and get good results. I will be at my woods next week end and will get some pictures of the results to post.

The easiest trees to kill are ash and eastern hophornbeam (ironwood). They will drop their leaves within days of treatment. The most difficult seem to be hickory. I don't think I was able to kill a one of them that was treated. I also had mixed results with some large red maple wolf trees. Some seemed to die but a few others did not seem to be affected much. These wolf trees are so large that I would not want to drop them because they would cause so much damage when they came down. They also make good wildlife trees when left standing dead. I will take a picture of the label on the jug when I get a chance.

[Larry]

Here is our hometown source for generic glyphosate.  It is called Gly Star Original.

http://www.albaughinc.com/pd_glystar_original.htm

Used Roundup on trees similar to the method bitternut described and has worked well...but don’t know what a beech even looks like.  I have used Gly Star for weed control but never on trees...should work the same as Roundup at a reduced cost.

Be aware that many people sell chemicals at a sharply reduced cost...because it is watered down.

[customsawyer]

You can use the above mention hack and squirt method for just about all different types of trees you just have to read the labels on the different chemicals for the different spiecies you want to control.
I have done this application with Aresenal, Accord, Round-up, Garlon 4a and 3a, and also Velpar. When you get in to the application time it can be done in the south from full leaf right up till just before the sap starts to head up in Feb. the late fall application gets best results as the sap is going down and the chemical will be taken down with it. Make sure to read the labels. If you use any of the chemical like Aresenal or Velpar that are soil active you need to make sure of your rates so you don't damage any desireable trees. The only thing that I would change in the photo above is the bottle that is used to apply the chemical. I use a regular squirt bottle that you get at the local garden center as the will be able to measure the amount of chemical used with each pull of the trigger.

[Rod]

The forester said he will stop out next week and mark off 10 acers to start on the TSI.He said the state will pay 75% of the cost.And here is how it works.it's 12 cents a foot if you use roundup and 8 cents a foot for using a chainsaw to kill off the trees.And he said he thinks 500'' per acer is the max you can cull.He said he knows a forester who has a thing that you put 22 shell in,and it has roundup in the 22 shell,and you hold it up to the tree and you pull the triger.He said that the forester with this gun thing could cull the trees at no cost to me.

[Rod]

bitternut ,were do I get one of those squirt bottle that squits 1 mm at a time at?

[Rod]

I read most of this

http://www.zoeticzone.com/p/articles/mi_qa3990/is_200106/ai_n8958684?pi=zoe

and this

http://www.state.tn.us/agriculture/forestry/lit/18.pdf


So that I might kind of learn what I need to know before I start on this TSI.

[bitternut]

Rod I will have to print out those articles and maybe read them this fall while bowhunting. Its the kind of article you have to read over a couple of times to digest it all.

As for the bottle I use I picked them up at a lab supply. One place you can try is United States Plastics ( 1-800-537-9724 ). I have an old catalog that lists all kinds of bottles similar to the ones I have. My catalog is ten years old but I tried the phone number and it is a good number ( they were closed ).

Here is the link to their website. They have all kinds of bottles.http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/category.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&category%5Fname=6252&Page=1

Don't get too fussy with your treatment. It is not as complicated as you may think. You will notice in the picture of my hatchet that it is a regular camp hatchet but I have narrowed the blade to just under 2" wide and rounded the corners of the blade. By doing this my resulting cut will be deeper and the corners of the cut will usually be closed. This way the liquid will not run out the ends of the cut. I don't measure the amount of liquid used per cut. I merely fill up the hack cut with liquid. I figure 1 hack per 2" dbh. When in doubt I give it 1 or 2 more whacks. I use a small plastic wire nut as a cap for my bottle. I have killed some very large beech with no problem at all.

I have had a forester do marking and I also have been releasing some crop trees on my own in other parts of my woods. I have not noticed any damage to any crop trees, in fact they seem to be responding quite well to the canopy opening around them.

[Rod]

Thanks bitternut

Also I was doing some figureing on how much roundup I'd need.And you said to put about 2 ml into each cut.OK,so a gal of cheap roundup will cost me about $65 for 2 1/2 gal.So thats 1200 ml's which would cost about 18 1/2 cents per ml.So IF I'm getting paid 10 cents a diamiter inch then i figure I should use 5 cents per diminater inch worth of roundup.The reason I was figring is the max I can get paid in a given year is $10,000.So then the way I've got it figured I'd need about $5,000  worth of roundup,which sounds like a lot of $$ to me.But anyways those are the numbers I came up with and I they could be off some tho

[caryr]

Rod,

Like customsawyer said there are many different specialized chemicals to kill different tree species. You want to pick the right one and not all chemicals are approved for forest use. In our area glyphosate (roundup) is not approved for forest use. Your forester should know which chemicals are forest approved and which will give you the best bang for the buck on the specific species you are trying to kill. You probably need to use a forest approved chemical to get the cost sharing money. If you have a county extension agent they often are a great source for information. We are lucky enough to have a forestry specific agent that covers two counties. A short machete also works great when you are using the hack and squirt method.

Cary

[bitternut]

Rod...........I think your math is off. According to the chart I looked at there are 3,785.4 ml in a gallon which results in 9463.5 ml per 2.5 gallon jug. I bought the generic glyphosate for about $43 per 2.5 gal jug. This figures out to less than 1/2 cent per ml. Remember that you can use the least expensive type with no surfacant since you are not spraying it on a surface. Just make sure that it is 41% glyphosate.

What do you mean by 500" per acre and 12 cents per foot?

If I were you I would get some roundup and a hatchet and give it a try. In a couple of weeks after treatment you would see how easy it is to get rid of your beech. Using a hatchet and squirt bottle is also a lot safer than using a chain saw. Its also quicker, easier to carry, cheaper to operate, no chaps, helmet with ear muffs, etc.

[Rod]

bitternut ,I was thinking my math wasn't right. :)And what I mean by the 500'' per acre is thats how many diameter inchs per acre you can cut.But the forester was wrong about that part.I called the head forester who is incharge of the progam and he said there wasn't any limint on the inchs per acre.


And is is the cheapest I can find the roundup

Hi-Yield Kill Zall 2 1/2 Gallon $48 +shipping
http://www.cooperseeds.com/lawnchem.php3?cat=weedgrasscontrol&cartid=

and the cost share from the US foresty is 75%.So they will reinburse me for do this work,is 10 cents a diameter inch.The forester said he was going to come out this week and lay out 10 acres .

[Rod]

OK bitternut ,i went out and did a few trees for a test run,and it seamed like its a whole lot easier then using a chainsaw.I went to the farm store and got a quart of roundup with 50% glyphosate and mixed it half and half.I asked the forester if they gave more money for walking on grades over 60% and he said no which is what 50% of my TSI will be on..and its about 95 out there now.

[Rod]

bitternut,I went out today and did about a 1000 diminter inchs in 4 hours with the hack and squirt on some really big and hollow beechs that the forester marker.I thought it was kind of hard work.I hope they all die off.It was in the 90's out there and I sure did get hot.I can hack and squit just about as fast as he can mark them.When I left he house I set the A/C ON 64

[bitternut]

Atta boy Rod. Glad to hear you are right after those cull trees. Just think how much more work it would have been had you been lugging a chainsaw around with you. If you happen to get yours all done and want some more practice I have a few acres that need doing before fall. Hope it cools off a little for you. Makes being in the woods a lot more enjoyable.

How do you figure out how to get paid? Do you keep a log of the dbh of each tree that you treat or does the forester do that as he marks them.
?

Anyways as they say "git er done" and let me know if you want more practice.