Log lot management problems

[smwwoody]

Bibby

My next sugestion may not be much better but here goes...


some full time help

and if that don't work Eddie and I have alot of room in our log yard

Woody

[Brucer]

Hmm .. if a picture's worth a thousand words, than we've got a short story here .

Bibbyman, I've been reading this over and looking at your pictures, and I don't think you have a log lot management problem. You've got a good plan for organizing your logs, you've got access to both sides of the bigger piles, you're making good use of existing roadways to get at logs, and you've got a good piece of equipment for handling them.

Nope, I figure what you've really got is an inventory problem -- too much of it. So instead of developing more land, or buying more equipment, or hiring more help, the real solution is to figure out how to reduce the amount of inventory on hand.

The kind of work you're doing demands a certain level of inventory to act as a buffer for unexpected demands. What is that level? How do you maintain it? How do you replace inventory after filling an order, without getting a bunch of logs that you don't need mixed in with the stuff you want? How do you turn away logs when you don't need them -- but still keep those loggers coming to you in the future? Those are the real issues.

Keep your log inventory down and the log lot management will take care of itself.

[J_T]

I think he was refuring to a dangling grapple  One like on a nukleboom loader. Good luck think I have wore the bark off some of mine

[UNCLEBUCK]

Bibbyman , I am curious to know when a private party brings logs to you say 2 dozen and leaves you and Mary a cut list , what is the time frame you tell them when they can come and get their lumber? Do you say check back in a week or a month ? Do private small customers want their logs sawn asap from you?

[Bibbyman]

Brucer, I think you’ve got a good grasp of our situation.  We have an imbalance in our incoming work load and out going production.  We want to remain a “Mom and Pop” mill operation but are busting at the seams.

Like I said,  we spent 10 hours in the past two days sorting logs.  We needed to do that but …  That’s 10 hours not sawing.

We’re working on getting more buildings,  live deck and would like some other help like green chain, etc.   But it’s hard to find the time to get this done when every hour or so there’s another PU pulling up with someone wanting something.  Or,  you’re sawing away and hear this “Bhaaaaa!, Bhaaaa!,  Bhaaaa!”  of yet another tractor trailer rig gearing down as it’s coming in with a load of logs or to get lumber.  Or you come into the house and there are seven messages waiting.

UB,  Mary negotiates with each customer the time we’ll get their sawing done.  We’ve got a couple of steady customers that we have committed to filling their orders within a couple of days.  We have a standing agreement on price and specs.  They just call and leave a message – “Mary,  we need so many of this and that.” 

As for custom sawing,  we try to shoot for two weeks.  Sometimes the customer is in more of a hurry and depending on who it is and what the emergency is,  we try to help them out.   

Then we’ve got a lot of customers that are in no hurry.  This gets us into a bind because then we just keep putting it off and their couple of logs are always in the way. 

Then we’ve got a couple of stacks of logs on our lot that have been here more than two years.  They’re not ready for the lumber!  One stack of about 50 cedar logs came from that a new house site of a neighbor’s up the road.  They want it sawed to build their deck.  The house is built and they’ve moved in but they are not ready to build the deck.  Talk to them about a month ago and informed them that the cedar logs are sap rotten and if they wanted anything out of them,  they better get it sawn.  “Oh no,  they should still be good.  We’re not ready yet. We’ll let you know.”

On the outgoing side,  we have the same problem.  We get it sawn and call the customer and then they don’t come pick it up.  What makes Mary and I the maddest are the ones that make an appointment, at a time of their convenience, not ours, and then don’t show up or even call to say they can’t come.  Often they show up at some odd time unannounced. 

At this time we’re in pretty good shape on out custom sawing orders.  We’ve got one of about 3,000 bf done and waiting to be picked up.  And a couple of one-two logs orders sawn and not picked up.  We’ve got logs for two other custom sawing jobs to get done – one with about a dozen small walnut logs and another with two big burr-oak logs.

[Ron Wenrich]

I don't envy you sawing for small orders.  I try not to saw too many.  You can adjust your price for your orders.  The smaller the order, the more expensive it is.  You have just as much time in your administrative work on a small order as you do a large order.  What you charge should reflect that.  If they don't pick up an order within a certain amount of time, sell it to recoup your costs.  Let them know ahead of time.

One way of increasing production is to saw larger blocking.  RR ties will knock out a bunch of material in short order.  But, you should have some way of handling the heavier stock.  Pallet blocking also will reduce log inventories pretty quick.  Make the orders from the sidecuts.

A little dab of grade here and there can be chased, if you have an outlet.  Letting it mount up doesn't help your bottom line, and by the time you sell it a lot may not meet "customer specs".  We have a few lumber brokers that will buy as little as 1 Mbf of 2 Com & Btr of any species.  They don't pay as much, but it keeps the lumber yard cleaned up.

For the loggers that are dumping, just lower the log prices. They won't bring as many.  We don't buy too many logs, but when we do we try to buy by weight.  Since your not getting in too many grade logs, why scale?  Those that don't make it go as firewood.  If the logger drops too much on you that is junk, then pay pulp prices.  If you need certain lengths, you can adjust your price to reflect higher prices for longer lengths. 

The nice thing about a knuckleboom is you stack your loggers higher.  The bad thing is that it takes a lot longer to get through the pile. 

Bottom line in inventory control is you running your operation, not the loggers and not the customers.  You cater to those that help your business and weed out those that don't.

[bull]

Pay less for the incoming logs and charge more for outbound product and a hell of a lot more for custom sawing.... You will get rid of a lot of headaches andbring in more money for less work....  I have had similar problems... At present I am unable to run the mill do to my leg injury,so Im cleaning up my log yard...I've found logs that have been around for as long as 5 years... There's going to be a large pile of firewood...
To bad some of these were nice sized and good grade,maple,birch,red oak... No more custom sawing and no more logs from the tree service guys.( Im not the local log dump anymore)...  If the logs aren't from my property then they have to come from a licensed logger.... I've had an inventory of up to 150,000 ft. of pine and 50,000 ft of hardwood in the past..  My plan now is no more than 10,000 ft of anything in the yard and a sort pile that will be cut into firewood once a month.... No logs along the driveway or stacked on the front lawn. If they can't fit in the mill yard then i won't get to them for a year and that makes for some pretty expensive firewood...   And the heck w/ hired help....

[Bibbyman]

Yea, Ron,  I had this thought after the first of the year when logs stated coming in again that we’d saw out a trailer truck load of RR ties.  I even called and talked to our local Koppers buyer.  I’d been a way to get rid of a couple of hundred 8’, 9’ and 10’ logs.  We may do that yet but it’s been a couple of months and we’ve not got started.  Mary’s not any too keen on the idea for some reason.

We do have one place that we sell blocking but they only order about 1000 pieces a year.  Then another that only orders some special stuff from time to time. 

We do have two prices we charge for custom sawing - one for under 1,000 bf and another for over.  But Mary still charges the lower price to some of our old regular customers. Then she’s got her “ol’ fart’s club”.  Old retired farmers that have nothing better to do with their time than stand around and visit.

Firewood has not been a good seller in our area.  Too many people cut their own or have converted to gas or electric heat.   You can’t sale it unless you can deliver it.  That takes way too much time.

[slowzuki]

Bibby, if the claw on your grapple is too slow but more than strong enough, you may want to get the hydraulic cylinder swapped out for a smaller one.  If it is a 2" now, a 1.5" will be 1.77 times faster, a 1.25" would be 2.56 times faster, of course there is a coresponding drop in grab power.

You can put a light thumb on pallet forks too.  It is in the centre and lets you grab an extra few logs per trip.  It runs quite fast as it is a small cylinder.

[VA-Sawyer]

Bibbyman,
I only have two words for you......STORAGE FEES !
VA-Sawyer

[Buzz-sawyer]

I was thinkin on the 2 year logs.......I would be sorely tempted to ask them to please come get thier logs....just to see thier expression

[Bibbyman]

I was thinkin on the 2 year logs.......I would be sorely tempted to ask them to please come get thier logs....just to see thier expression

Buzz- I was thinking along the line of asking one of the loggers with a picker to load them up and take them back up the road and dump them into their nice lawn and drive.

The cylinder is at least 4" if not 5".  It'd make a great demolition tool.  I think it'd work good for taking down a brick building or old sidewalk.  I've used it to pick up big bolders the size of engine blocks and also to pull steel fence posts.  Works great to take out old fence.

Got 42" forks on the Terex.  It'll pick up 4-5 smaller 8-10' logs and and a couple of average size 12-14' logs.  BIG LOGS - one at a time!

Here is a link to a web page on our web site about or Terex loader. 

Terex loader

[Gary_C]

It is obvious that you have an excellent loader that will do everything you need done. While a knuckleboom would be better for some things, your Terex is a great machine for what you need.


As you already know, you need to get control of your log yard. Just start thinking of those logs out there as THIEVES that have been placed there to steal your money and time. But you have to figure a way to stop the logs from being dumped in your yard, but still keep Mary happy. 

[ARKANSAWYER]

Bibby,
  I would help you if I could but since I have never had them problems I know of no solutions.  Some times I have to many logs and no orders so I just cant up the logs and sticker them till orders come.  Then I take the cants and resaw them.  That happens very seldom.
  KB's are very handy to load and unload trucks with and help to sort through piles fast to find logs for orders.  But to make payments there has to be an increase of income which means more sawing to make more money.  Good fulltime help (yea like you are going to find that) will speed up production alot.
  As for the old logs I would tell them folks to either have them sawed, come get them or start paying a storage fee.

[iain]

Bibby baby i got your problem sorted, what you need is a great big



 SELECT"O"MATIC LOG CAROSEL


 ok it may need to be a bit bigger than big
you can have that problem solving idea on the house, but any more and there will have to be fees, levied appropriate to the level of thinking involved


    iain

[smwwoody]

Bibby here is how Eddie solved his log lot problems.
http://imageevent.com/fireals/sawmillpictures

Now it is empty Most of the time 

Woody

[FiremanEd]

Good fulltime help (yea like you are going to find that) will speed up production alot.

Arky,

   Yes you can find GREAT full time help. Look at the link in the post above this one,, Picture #1 shows the best thing to happen to our opperation in a good long while. My log inventory dissappeared soon after Woody moved to Va. We're now taking ALL the tie logs from 2 full time logging crews and have a third logger lined up to start bringing us all his tie logs this week. (I sure hope he shows up, we've been out of logs for 2 1/2 days....)
    I agree with your comment but it is still possible. I had to go through 3 rejects before Woody and I started talking on The Forestry Forum...

[Kirk_Allen]

Why not put in a LOG POND!  Makes moving them pretty easy and they should last a lot longer!

[UNCLEBUCK]

Thanks for the reply Bibbyman .

[Bibbyman]

Bottom line in inventory control is you running your operation, not the loggers and not the customers.  You cater to those that help your business and weed out those that don't.

Several years ago we got to the point where we needed to buy logs.  Not a lot but a couple 2-3 mbf/month. 

We talked to a number of local loggers and got nowhere.  We soon learned that they all have their dedicated markets and it’s very hard to get them to change.  Also,  they didn’t want to fool with one or two loads a week and they for sure didn’t like the idea of us asking for specific species and sizes of logs. It was all or none.   

Finally one local logger brought us a short load from where he was cleaning up.  We developed some business with him but it’s not been perfect by any means.  Sometimes he shows up with a load because he’s having a problem with his truck and it’s already loaded and does not want to risk taking it to his normal market.  Other loggers have delivered to us on a spot market basis.

It’s NUTS!!!  You see tractor-trailer loads of logs on the highways go here and there.  Talk to the loggers and they have their markets far away from where they are home based or logging.  And they are locked in and loyal to them.  With the cost of trucking,  I can’t see how it’s an advantage to haul the logs 100-200 miles past 20 other places they could market them.

I sure would be handy to be able to call you’re local logger on a Friday and say, “We’re going to saw out a trailer deck Monday so we’re going to need 4-5 nice 16’ white oak logs.  Then we’ve got an order for 200 2x6, 12’ so were going to need….”  Then they just show up with the logs you need when you need them. IT NEVER WORKS THAT WAY.  So you’re about forced to take what they’ve got and hope you can make what you need out of it.