Author Topic: your ideas on fence post treatment (Read 3143 times)

Buzz-sawyer · « **on:** April 28, 2005, 12:57:26 pm »

Any suggestions on where to get penta...or any treatment that will actually work on posts?
I am building about a mile of fence and have the means and patience to treat cut posts....
Problem is the Government is making it difficult to go to the farm store and BUY something that works.........ANY home made recipes of stuff that works on the farm???

J_T · « **Reply #1 on:** April 28, 2005, 01:20:05 pm »

How about that stuff they use on RR tyes

Get you two big tanks one that you can seal the end on put a presher gauge on it pump fluid out the other tank seal and light a fire under it and build up some presher use a pre set reliefe valve . Then drive to my house and we'll watch the 6 oclock news together

Cedarman · « **Reply #2 on:** April 28, 2005, 02:05:56 pm »

Illinois is between Mo and In. Both states have some good cedar posts. Good red ones don't need treated.

What kind of posts are you wanting to treat?

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #3 on:** April 28, 2005, 03:20:22 pm »

I like the cedar idea also. Up here no one would consider using anything but cedar and them posts last for years. They used to use them on rail fences here between properties and they could be found and retraced over a 100 years after being installed.

Unfortunately, they became kindling wood for the stove when I was young. $:-\$

Buzz-sawyer · « **Reply #4 on:** April 28, 2005, 03:25:04 pm »

Cedarman
We have very little erc here, we have osage and black locust. I dont have any erc, osage or black locust. I do have lots mixed hardwoods that I can cut to dimension on my mill for free...hence the need for economical treatment .if there is such a thing anymore.

Kirk_Allen · « **Reply #5 on:** April 28, 2005, 03:59:13 pm »

Buzz, how many posts are you needing.

I have to find out some more on the Black Locust trees the farmer is giving me but I bet we could cut almost all you need from Osage. It may take a few days to logg them and cut them but its possible. Im cheap! Food and blades:)

Cedarman · « **Reply #6 on:** April 28, 2005, 05:58:51 pm »

Kirk, I need beau coup black locust posts between 3" and 5" small end and a little over 8' long. Can pick up. Need ASAP Anyone else got any? Need about 500 to 600 all together.

Buzz-sawyer · « **Reply #7 on:** April 28, 2005, 06:08:26 pm »

Kirk
i have been thinkin on commin over and helpin you out with you work any how...sound like we may work some fun out of it ...Could bring along a rifle and do some tack driving to (not with mine)

Ironwood · « **Reply #8 on:** April 28, 2005, 06:16:59 pm »

Some old timers say to char the ends. I would follow that up with diesel/oil and than avoid sealing the bottom....ie no concrete on the bottom just gravel , if'in you need to crete them do a ring at he top. We use alot of Locust here as well. Reid

etat · « **Reply #9 on:** April 28, 2005, 06:38:40 pm »

Agree on the concrete part. It'll trap moisture around the base of the post and rot it lots quicker.

Around here a locust will last a lot longer than a cedar post.

Cedarman · « **Reply #10 on:** April 28, 2005, 06:40:37 pm »

Peel them and char the bottom 3 or 4 feet. What the pioneers did.

Jason_WI · « **Reply #11 on:** April 28, 2005, 07:38:43 pm »

My grandpa soaked cedar fence posts in a wood barrel of saturated copper sulfate solution till the ends sticking out turned blue. You can get copper sulfate in 50# bags at any ag supply store. It is corrosive so use a plastic barrel if you try it.

Most of these posts are still solid after 50 years in the ground.

Jason

Cedarman · « **Reply #12 on:** April 28, 2005, 07:44:34 pm »

What is that much copper sulfate used for?

etat · « **Reply #13 on:** April 28, 2005, 08:02:56 pm »

Suppliment needed to add to fertilizer for some pasture ground for beef cows.

Rod · « **Reply #14 on:** April 28, 2005, 08:38:54 pm »

I don'tknow if anyone said this or not.But you can but the post in a 55 gal drum filled with used motor oil and leve them in the oil for about 30 days.Then on the fence boards and the part of the post that didn't get oil you can spray or brush the oil on the rest of the fence.

The fence will last about 30 or more years

hiya · « **Reply #15 on:** April 28, 2005, 08:56:51 pm »

One time I put some white oak post in a barrow of 1/2 used motor oil and 1/2 creasoat. Took a 55 gal. drum filled it with post then put in oil-creasoat, lit a fire under it to cook out the water,then let it set a few days. The only thing is I moved to another state so I don,t know how well it worked.
Richard

Buzz-sawyer · « **Reply #16 on:** April 28, 2005, 09:15:55 pm »

hiya
If I could get some creosote...that would be the end of my search

Frank_Pender · « **Reply #17 on:** April 28, 2005, 09:21:21 pm »

You can give these folks a call in Portland, Oregon; 1-888-888-6095. The have a wood preservative that is approved by all government agencies and then some.

However, If you want to save dollars and no time you can split your White Oak (heart only) build an large fire with the limbs sand char the posts to the p[oint of almost on fire.

I have posts on this tree farm that were installed after such treatmene that are sitll solid and were planted 75 years ago.

pigman · « **Reply #18 on:** April 28, 2005, 10:02:36 pm »

Quote from: Cedarman on April 28, 2005, 07:44:34 pm

What is that much copper sulfate used for?

When I was in the pig business, I bought 50 lbs at a time to put in my farm pond to control algae. The algea would stop up the filters in the water system.

Jason_WI · « **Reply #19 on:** April 28, 2005, 10:10:41 pm »

We use copper sulfate on cows with hoof rot. Dig down to the abcess with a hoof knive then pack with copper sulfate. It is a fungicide.

Jason

wiam · « **Reply #20 on:** April 28, 2005, 10:12:50 pm »

Jason beat me to it . It is also used in foot baths for cattle.

Will

Ernie · « **Reply #21 on:** April 28, 2005, 10:26:28 pm »

I found when treating sheep and goat feet for foot rot, that melted petroleum jelly with coppersulfate and some old expired powdered antibiotics like tetramyicyn (spelling) worked into the trimmed feet worked perfectly as it tended to stick well.

We had over 1500 saanen milking goats as a recipient herd for our angora goat embryo transplant programme and our damp paddocks were a real problem for the feet. We also put them through weekly footbaths with stones in the bottom for spreading the hooves and alternating weekly between copper and zinc sulphate was very effective.

Sure is great to be making sawdust instead

UNCLEBUCK · « **Reply #22 on:** April 28, 2005, 10:45:20 pm »

In Minnesota for about 30$ you can take the private pesticide applicators test , it comes through the us mail and a book to read and the test with the answers to be found throughout the book . The license is good for 3 years and then go to a farm/fertilizer place and they will order just about anything you need if the state allows and the list of chemicals that can be purchased is huge . Must be the same type of deal in other states happening

Buzz-sawyer · « **Reply #23 on:** April 28, 2005, 10:54:17 pm »

Has anyone ever used coppersulfate on mixed hardwoods....................

Kirk_Allen · « **Reply #24 on:** April 28, 2005, 11:00:17 pm »

Quote from: Buzz-sawyer on April 28, 2005, 06:08:26 pm

Kirk
i have been thinkin on commin over and helpin you out with you work any how...sound like we may work some fun out of it ...Could bring along a rifle and do some tack driving to (not with mine)

Buzz your welcome anytime! I have several Osage to fell and/or skid out of the woods but not sure if we would get near a mile of fence posts.

How close you going to place them to each other. Boards between or wire?

Guns are good. Always bring guns....................................but then again we may not get any work done if got more guns

Buzz-sawyer · « **Reply #25 on:** April 29, 2005, 07:56:40 pm »

They still sell penta and creosote post here.....just not the stuff to do it yourself...........I would get a licencse to do it if economical.....

Kirk Your on I will give ya a call.

etat · « **Reply #26 on:** April 29, 2005, 08:07:56 pm »

I remember buying creosote by the gallon and mixing it with diesel fuel. Nasty stuff but I wouldn't mind having a couple a gallons around if I could still get it.

Wanna know what's really miserable. Tear off a OLD pitch flat roof. Creosote and tar mixed together. I haven't been aholt of one in several years, mostly they're all gone now. Number one rule, don't touch your face. Don't wipe your face. If it gets dusty with that pitch, leave it alone. Until you can get to soap and water. I once saw a boy go blind by dinner, not kidding. He kept rubbing his face with his gloves. It just rubs the pitch in deeper and by dinner his eyes were swole shut.

I was working for someone else then. They didn't care but I took him at dinner and bought a bottle of dishwashing liquid. Had him wash his hands good, and then fill em with dishwash and take it straight to his face and eyes. And then I had him do it again, and again until we went through the whole bottle. He was crying, but by the end of dinner he could see, sorta. I told him 'no authority to do so' to take the rest of the day off and go home and keep potato peelings on his eyes to pull the heat out.

I would of bet anything that anybody wanted to bet that he wouldn't be back at work the next day, but he was. But he didn't touch his face or rub his eyes with them dusty pitch gloves.

Rod · « **Reply #27 on:** April 29, 2005, 08:51:09 pm »

Here is a way that might work using coppersulfate on mixed hardwoods

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplrn/fplrn013.pdf

Rod · « **Reply #28 on:** April 29, 2005, 09:13:00 pm »

this stuff might work to

Link

Application
Above Ground Contact:
The best results will be obtained if wood to be treated is immersed for 3 minutes or longer.
If dipping is not possible, 2 brush coats, roller, or spray applications should be applied.
Allow at least 1 hour between applications.
Make certain all areas are fully treated to get the maximum benefits.
Allow 24 hours or longer after application of the preservative prior to painting.
Ground Contact:
Seasoned or green wood may be treated.
Make certain the wood is free of bark, then immerse in Dock & Fence Post Preservative for 12 to 48 hours or until the sapwood is completely penetrated.
Coverage
One gallon covers 100 - 300 sq. ft. depending upon the wood species, porosity of wood, and method of application.

rebocardo · « **Reply #29 on:** April 30, 2005, 04:51:36 am »

On large sticks (4x4 or 6x6) I like a bed of gravel, stick in the post, then pour cement around it, then cap the post with plastic. I use plastic covers for electrical boxes (from Home Depot) because they are cheap and quick to install with one deck screw on each side to hold the cover to the post. The cement should be sloped and higher then the ground around it so the water does not pool around the base of the post.

For a mile of fencing, what seems to work in GA, is people stick the poles into a bucket of roofing tar and then set that into the ground and pack the hole with dirt.

KiwiCharlie · « **Reply #30 on:** April 30, 2005, 05:44:38 am »

Id go for the western red cedar - Ive just started working with it and its light, easy to handle, and lasts! What more do you want!!

Oh yeah - it smells great too!

Cheers
Charlie.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #31 on:** April 30, 2005, 07:58:02 am »

How about yellow cedar/cypress......smell that aroma (peeled carrots)....sniffffff...and even more resilient than red cedar. It's probably expensive though. Most of the market for it in BC is for Asia I think.

Quote

Yellow cedar's natural decay resistance makes it a popular material for sills (dodai) in both post and beam and 2x4 construction (20 % Asian Market). Six foot sorts and lower grade material go to sills or laminated sills. The most common yellow cedar sill material is solid-sawn, and undried and generally milled into 105mm x 105, and 120mm x 120mm squares. Competition in the sill market comes from treated hemlock, treated Japanese cedar (sugi), and increasingly from laminated radiata pine (LVL) and laminated whitewoods. In spite of the competition, yellow
cedar has been gaining market share in the sill market and this has been partly attributed to its natural decay resistance, which makes the use of toxic preservatives unneccesary.

Original Document

maple flats · « **Reply #32 on:** April 30, 2005, 12:57:31 pm »

I heard once that black locust posts with no treatment were still holding gates up in England after 150 years in the ground. Try looking further into black locust if you can.

wiam · « **Reply #33 on:** April 30, 2005, 09:46:18 pm »

Here is my post treatment. White cedar 3 x 3.

Will

Buzz-sawyer · « **Reply #34 on:** April 30, 2005, 10:10:27 pm »

Rod
Thanks for the link to the forestry service link seems like a good possibilty

Buzz-sawyer · « **Reply #35 on:** April 30, 2005, 10:44:30 pm »

The forestry report mentioned only SOME hardwoods take this type of treatment...any one been down this path? Which hardwoods take treatment best???

Rockn H · « **Reply #36 on:** May 02, 2005, 01:04:58 am »

Buzz-Sawyer, I'm no expert, but I'm in the same boat you are. I need to treat some post. From a question I asked in Drying and Processing, I would say that your white oaks would not do well because of their closed cell structure.

I need someone to tell me if I'm wrong, probably am but here goes. In Rod's second post the product contains Naphthenic acid an accelerant used in hardening paint? Could something like mineral spirits be substituted? The other main ingredient is Copper salt. Is this not the same as Copper sulfate which has been mentioned already in this post. I'm trying to figure out if the product could be roughly duplicated or if it's not what more or less keeps coming up as a means to treat wood. I'm starting to think Copper sulfate is a good way to go I just like 2nd, 3rd , 4th oppinions.

Quote from: Buzz-sawyer on April 30, 2005, 10:10:27 pm

Rod
Thanks for the link to the forestry service link seems like a good possibilty

dido

Rod · « **Reply #37 on:** May 02, 2005, 08:17:07 am »

this link leads to a company that makes the Naphthenic acid stuff to treat wood.I called home depot and they don't have noting for treating wood they said.

http://www.merichem.com/COPPER/Main.HTM

Rod · « **Reply #38 on:** May 02, 2005, 09:16:51 am »

and here is how long the post lasted with all the different ways to treat fence post

http://fcg.cof.orst.edu/rc/rc26.pdf

Rod · « **Reply #39 on:** May 02, 2005, 09:27:12 am »

this link might work better
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:Pq3ZO8Fj0wkJ:fcg.cof.orst.edu/rc/rc26.pdf+Naphthenic+acid+fence+post&hl=en

wiam · « **Reply #40 on:** May 02, 2005, 08:59:13 pm »

Rod said "I called home depot and they don't have noting for treating wood they said."

I called Home Depot and asked if they had orange construction fence. "Nope, don't have it. Never heard of it." I went in for someting else next day and found about 30 rolls.

Will

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #41 on:** May 03, 2005, 05:38:53 pm »

wiam,

That's just exactly what I run into 'sometimes'. Employees with no clue.

Buzz-sawyer · « **Reply #42 on:** May 03, 2005, 05:58:17 pm »

Well I took the good advice and looked into geting a private applicators license, and found out it costs 15 buck........I take the test next thursday in Springfield. I can then purchase and use on my farm ANY RESTRICTE USE pesticide, including creosote, penta , CCA , AND any of the good pesticides..I feel good , because now, I found out the rights I thought I had lost.....they are STILL there I just have to pay for them.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #43 on:** May 03, 2005, 06:24:30 pm »

Buzz,

They done the same up here. And if ya buy the consumer products at the hardware store there is 10 times mark-up for 500 ml. Go get round-up at the agri-mart and for $35 I can get 10 times the amount. So what does a certificate proove, that I can read and write maybe??

Furby · « **Reply #44 on:** May 03, 2005, 08:01:27 pm »

Actually that says a lot now days SD!

Kirk_Allen · « **Reply #45 on:** May 03, 2005, 10:17:17 pm »

Hey Buzz,
Check out this site:
http://www.cedar-vadek.co.za/catalog/index.php?cPath=30&osCsid=d590b2bc5ef03cd3cfe7d0599cae825f

They have Creasote listed as being available.

Also you might check on Carbolinium. Its on the same site.

My dad uses it for fence posts and fence boards. Most of the first posts he put in the ground 20 years ago are fine. Out of over 300 posts he has about 10-15 that have rotted.

Buzz-sawyer · « **Reply #46 on:** May 03, 2005, 10:32:09 pm »

Do you know what species he used?

UNCLEBUCK · « **Reply #47 on:** May 04, 2005, 12:16:29 am »

The private applicators license I found has more to do with safety than anything else and disposal .

Rod · « **Reply #48 on:** May 04, 2005, 08:33:08 am »

Looks lke from the test Creosote worked the best on any kind of wood.I guess that must be the reason they still use Creosote on RR ties.

hey also said

The pressure-treated test posts were produced commercially. Commercialtreatments offer the widest selection of preservatives and can result in a product having excellent durability. Modern preservatives used by commercial plantsare now more effective than some early formulations that leached more easilyfrom treated wood. Use of less effective zinc meta-arsenite and chromatedzinc chloride (series 33, 43) has been discontinued. Average life of most seriesof pressure-treated posts in the tests should exceed 40 yr. Square-sawed postsof western hemlock treated with aqueous solutions of Chemonite or Tanalithare expected to last longer than similar posts of Douglas-fir. Some series of creosoted posts (series 7, 23) have lasted for 67 yr without failure., ORPermit No. 200

Buzz-sawyer · « **Reply #49 on:** May 12, 2005, 10:56:13 pm »

Well its official I am Certified in Illinois to use GOOD wood preservatives...the ones that work....
Got the booklet and paid my money and took the test....license is in the mail

UNCLEBUCK · « **Reply #50 on:** May 12, 2005, 11:33:11 pm »

Way to go Buzz ! Have fun with all your new chemicals !

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Author Topic: your ideas on fence post treatment (Read 3143 times)

Kirk_Allen

Kirk_Allen

Kirk_Allen