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Author Topic: emerald ash borer  (Read 26928 times)

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Offline Jeff

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Re: emerald ash borer
« Reply #60 on: February 27, 2005, 08:34:24 am »
I'm not persecuting, I am playing the devils advocate. Asking for substantiation of "facts" is prudent on an issue like this. You cant Yell fire because you see smoke coming out the slightly opened teenager's bedroom window. This is very important to those guys in the U.P. and "rumors" can cause bad stuff to happen to woodlots and landowners.

"HEY!  You gotta cut this right now! The EAB has crossed the bridge and your timber will soon be dead!!  It will be worthless if you DON'T SELL IT NOW!"

Don't think that kind of crap don't happen. What you have reported here on the EAB in the U.P at this point is "hear-say". Not fact until it is substantiated with fact.  Now, saying that, I think its a fair bet that firewood has crossed the bridge, at least I would be willing to bet on it. Problem is, thats just one guy's opinion and everybody has got one.

  I can absolutely understand pasbuild's interest and concern. Lots and lots of people are reading this forum and looking here for information on this very thing.  I think any information that comes forth on such an important issue should be timely and absolutely accurate.

Certainly AtLast, in the position you are in you need, no, make that have to be ready to answer this type of question and not feel "persecuted". You are out there on the forefront of an extreme crisis for our forests. Information from you needs to be absolutely un-reproachable.
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Offline Ron Scott

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Re: emerald ash borer
« Reply #61 on: February 27, 2005, 09:23:07 am »
~Ron

Offline Jeff

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Re: emerald ash borer
« Reply #62 on: February 27, 2005, 09:35:25 am »
Now there is a fact! Thanks Ron.
 There ya go Chris, now you have a source to point to that dead and dieing ash was moved to the U.P., but it should be read in its entirety.  The most relevant portion to this particular discussion:

One case Wyant noted in particular was that of OGW Tree Service and Trucking of Southfield. The company began working with a community in Oakland County in 2003 removing dead and dying ash trees from that area. Despite numerous trips to the state’s no-cost disposal sites and awareness of the EAB quarantine, the company illegally moved ash wood out of the quarantined area to properties in Gratiot and Luce counties.

“The Department’s investigation showed that the company is directly responsible for the introduction and infestation of Emerald Ash Borer into Gratiot County. Thankfully, Luce County was spared from a similar fate as we have found no evidence of EAB infestation there to date,” Wyant said. “Sadly, Michigan citizens and ash resources end up paying the ultimate price for this type of disregard for the law.”



 
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Offline Ed

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Re: emerald ash borer
« Reply #63 on: March 02, 2005, 12:22:53 pm »
It's sad that the fines & punishment were so light.
It ammounts to no more than a slap on the hand.

Offline estiers

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Re: emerald ash borer
« Reply #64 on: March 02, 2005, 02:23:24 pm »
Unfortunatley Ed the State of Michigan has a highly outdated Plant Pest Act, and so has to prosecute under those ancient laws.  Hopefully they will update the thing and make the penalties much stiffer.
Erin Stiers
State Plant Health Director - Minnesota
United States Department of Agriculture

Offline tnlogger

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Re: emerald ash borer
« Reply #65 on: March 02, 2005, 03:00:11 pm »
I'm not persecuting, I am playing the devils advocate. Asking for substantiation of "facts" is prudent on an issue like this. You cant Yell fire because you see smoke coming out the slightly opened teenager's bedroom window. This is very important to those guys in the U.P. and "rumors" can cause bad stuff to happen to woodlots and landowners.

"HEY!  You gotta cut this right now! The EAB has crossed the bridge and your timber will soon be dead!!  It will be worthless if you DON'T SELL IT NOW!"

Don't think that kind of crap don't happen. What you have reported here on the EAB in the U.P at this point is "hear-say". Not fact until it is substantiated with fact.  Now, saying that, I think its a fair bet that firewood has crossed the bridge, at least I would be willing to bet on it. Problem is, thats just one guy's opinion and everybody has got one.

  I can absolutely understand pasbuild's interest and concern. Lots and lots of people are reading this forum and looking here for information on this very thing.  I think any information that comes forth on such an important issue should be timely and absolutely accurate.

Certainly AtLast, in the position you are in you need, no, make that have to be ready to answer this type of question and not feel "persecuted". You are out there on the forefront of an extreme crisis for our forests. Information from you needs to be absolutely un-reproachable.
your right in that jeff  when the pine beatle thing stated down here a few yrs back quite a few unscrupulous loggers went around looking at pine trees when they saw some brown  neddles on some trees they would tell the landowner they better cut them fast or they would have to burn them
gene

Offline AtLast

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Re: emerald ash borer
« Reply #66 on: March 02, 2005, 05:23:25 pm »
So I guess the concensious is lets let the other shoe drop before we do something about letting it hit the ground???...My statement brought awareness...and it made those concerned take a " better look" at whats goin on. facts..statistics...wont hold a candle when push comes to shove and all is to late to act...this is exactally why it, the EAB has gotten to this degree.... and I HOPE Ron posted his post in order to substantiate my...." hear say"...but the bottom line remains the same...In this case all to often being " to late" has taken its toll...so...ask yourself...should facts and stats completely hold the bar on action...OR...should " claims made by those that are.....reliable....fortuitive...concerned...just plain scared...sit back and not take a position that allows others to make their own decisions...information via the MDA and  MDNR  is readly available on the web...yet it poses not euf of what ALL....ALL need to look at...IF youre a wood lot owner....and IF a buyer poses this claim and IF the woodlot buyer is quick to " jump " at abuck..than I say to them....you should have done your research.....at the same time I say....by being one that IS aware and able to pass information...fact or not...it allows those concerned to deduct a decision and make their own choices accordingly...Thank you Ron Scott for posting...and thank you for substantiating my....rumor....but again I say...the end result remains the same.

Offline Jeff

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Re: emerald ash borer
« Reply #67 on: March 02, 2005, 05:52:43 pm »


Thankfully, Luce County was spared from a similar fate as we have found no evidence of EAB infestation there to date,” Wyant said. “Sadly, Michigan citizens and ash resources end up paying the ultimate price for this type of disregard for the law.”


You implied that the EAB is in the u.p. 

Quote
...As far as the UP goes...."confirmed"?....not sure BUT I DO know for a fact that it HAS crossed the bridge.

You should be accurate and complete in your information. Especially in the position you are in. 

The facts are that dead and dieing ash was taken to the u.p. by a company that was also responsible for the introduction and infestation of Emerald Ash Borer into Gratiot County.  It does not state that there is any EAB in the U.P.

My Personal opinion: I think it is probably inevitable that EAB will ultimatly surface in the U.P.  However, until there is no prove that it has, and there is not at this point, one should not be insinuating it has, especially one granted with supplying the public with information.




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Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: emerald ash borer
« Reply #68 on: March 02, 2005, 07:44:00 pm »
tn_Logger and Jeff,

The same thing happened with the spruce budworm years here in the 70's and 80's. Some loggers where scaring landowners with the potential scorge of the spruce budworm. Although, I will say that in alot of the cases they were true threats to the trees. Even big industry was in a panic in those years. I can remember them spraying in the 70's and under the spruce trees I would find dozens of grackle birds killed by the poisen. I can remember this when I was only 5 or 6 years old. I think it's been about 12 years since they sprayed for budworm here.

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
Dirty Harry

Offline Jeff

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Re: emerald ash borer
« Reply #69 on: March 02, 2005, 07:52:48 pm »
I think every effort should be made to get out the information in a prompt and responsible manner and I am absoluety sure it has. When ever there is an outbreak in a new place, it has been reported. The quarantine areas are expanded as the threats are identified.  I refuse to believe that someone may be hiding or delaying information that EAB is or is not in a certain area.
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Offline estiers

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Re: emerald ash borer
« Reply #70 on: March 03, 2005, 02:10:01 pm »
Let's try to clear up the UP situation.  Yes, the company that is responsible for spreading EAB to Gratiot county had trucked up ash to Luce county.  The wood was removed and MDA did a survey of the area to determine if EAB was in that area.  During thier search they found very little ash in the area, and those that they did find showed no EAB symptoms.
Erin Stiers
State Plant Health Director - Minnesota
United States Department of Agriculture

Offline Jeff

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Re: emerald ash borer
« Reply #71 on: March 03, 2005, 02:47:34 pm »
Thanks estiers! 

estiers and I had a great talk this morning. Very cool to have her as a member.

I have offered the forum up, (although it has always been available), as a place to post and to get, the most recent and up-to-date information possible on the EAB.  I will start another thread, that will be a "sticky"  It will always be at the top of the Education board where it can easily be found.  The first post will contain a PDF map of the current Tri-State Quarantine map from the USDA.
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Offline pasbuild

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Re: emerald ash borer
« Reply #72 on: March 03, 2005, 09:37:34 pm »
This thread  is not to bash anybody or any organization  it is to obtain any and all info available on the EAB, Atlast you gave me what I was looking for, ANY INFO. We all no that the wheels of government don't turn very fast and I for one don't want to wait for the official report if I can get it before hand.
Thanks to Ron Scott, estiers, Jeff and Atlast I can go back to those that are embellishing the Luce county rumor and correct  the miss information.
As Jeff stated this false rumor in the wrong hands can be as devastating as the EAB itself.
If it can't be nailed or glued then screw it

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Re: emerald ash borer
« Reply #73 on: March 04, 2005, 07:11:17 pm »
It is because of " my position" that I am quite comfortable in "stating" that inded it has.." Crossed the bridge"...this was my statement...NOT  that it was flurishing about...NOT that it was spreding...NOT that there was and " outbreak"....this by any standard was NOT an " insinuation"...it was information recieved from my contact with the USFS/MDA and as substantiated by Ron Scott and  the Luce County incident that this, my statement, was not irresponsable not rumor nor an insinuation...I stand by all my statements and can only hope that, once agin, those concerned, be it a woodlot or landowner be privy to and be able to do their research and make an informed decision...(Now there is a fact! Thanks Ron.
There ya go Chris, now you have a source to point to that dead and dieing ash was moved to the U.P., but it should be read in its entirety.  The most relevant portion to this particular discussion)....Jeff...in its entirety once again I say....the bottom line remains the same.....

Offline Jeff

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Re: emerald ash borer
« Reply #74 on: March 04, 2005, 07:54:35 pm »
I would read post 70 again

The official word is:
During their search they found very little ash in the area, and those that they did find showed no EAB symptoms.

"Substantiated by Ron Scott"   :D  Ron didnt substantiate anything, he pointed us to a webpage that stated that  nothing was found in Luce county to indicate EAB activity.

I did want to add, this, as I believe it has been construed that I think a rumor is "an untruth", not so, I always try to pick my words to the best of my ability, and feel that rumor was an appropriatte word in this instance.

Definitions of rumor on the Web:

An unverified belief that is in general circulation. (11)
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Offline Ron Scott

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Re: emerald ash borer
« Reply #75 on: March 05, 2005, 09:03:55 am »
Yes, I only posted information made public on the Michigan Department of Agriculture (MDA) web page. The same information has also been in local newspapers.

MDA has been trying to keep the public informed on EAB and on law enforcement action that has been taken for violating the EAB quarantine.  :P 
~Ron

Offline MSU_Keith

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Re: emerald ash borer
« Reply #76 on: March 07, 2005, 10:56:06 am »
AtLast:

Does the USFS inspection and tagging process cost anything? If yes, is it a one time fee, per visit or by the bdft?

Offline Ken Bell

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Re: emerald ash borer
« Reply #77 on: March 08, 2005, 06:48:44 am »
Last year, in Ontario chunks of ash, from the "Ash Free Zone" were shipped east, across Chatham Kent. Some of these where whole branches and long bark shreds.


You can see the photos at ash.info.ms

Offline estiers

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Re: emerald ash borer
« Reply #78 on: March 08, 2005, 07:51:50 am »
Ken - Homeowners in Michigan are not always given a choice (a statement made on your website).  In "outlier" areas (i.e. outside of the main infestation in 20 counties in SE Michigan), the state can and does come in and cut "healthy" trees down.  The website you reference does express alternative methods, but these methods are expensive, and not always effective. 
Erin Stiers
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United States Department of Agriculture

Offline hawby

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Re: emerald ash borer
« Reply #79 on: March 08, 2005, 10:27:37 am »
To add a little to this discussion... Two weeks a go, a rep from Dept. of Ag (Michigan) stopped by by place. He provided some materials that explained what EAB is and what steps are being taken to stop it. I had kust encountered a dead ash in our woods, so I had him take a look at it. It was not EAB, however, he told me that EAB senses the distressed trees and that is why they (Dept of AG) has been girdling trees in "healthy" counties. This draws any EAB in the area and allows for an "early detection" of EAB./
/
They are hopping that this phenomenon will lead to a trap design that may slow the progress of EAB.
//
Our county (Barry) is on the edge of the quaratine area and I believe by end of Summer, we'll probably be added. For my part, I would like to identify all of the ash in the area and clear it out as a firebreak./
/
hawby
Hawby

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