"Home Stead" Living

[Randy]

Anyone on here "Into" living off the land type living? You Know, non-electric, Solar, non-solar, Candles. oil lanterns, Raising most of your own food. Lets hear about it, talk about it. Randy

[beenthere]

That wouldn't be 'living' by my standards. That would be roughing it, or primitive camping. It was great while elk hunting in Colorado and Idaho for about 3 weeks at a time. But not any longer. 

[Jeff]

Well, I gotta think that we wont be hearing to much from the non-electric delegation.

[Stump Jumper]

you got a good point there Jeff.

[Haytrader]

Not trying to be a smartelic but I camped out for a year while carrying a rifle.
Now, my idea of 'roughing it' is leaving the bedroom window open about an inch.

 

[tnlogger]

it woun't be bad if ya had solor powered laptop and a connection  cause we all need our daily ff fix

[pigman]

Randy, I think that most of the people that live like that are not members of the Fourm since they would have difficulty connecting to the internet without electricity. I suppose they could use solar cells for power. I have a few neighbors that live like you describe. They wear black hats and drive horse and buggies, but I don't think they are members of the fourm. I like visiting with them, but I also like to get home to my electricity and other creature comforts.

[Lenny_M]

 Roughing it??? Thats living
  When we started out. 3 room camp,no water ,no sewerr, no power. I lied about the water.  The Brook ran 24/7x365 days a year
 We upgraded th camp a bit. Hand pump and small drywell
 NO RENT AND NEXT DOOR TO THE HOUSE WE BUILT. Everyone though we were nuts.  We had 3 kids when we moved into the house. 4th was on yhe way.
  My morgage 000000000000000 The people that thought we were nuts are still paying 1000-1200  monthly and probally will be to near retirement age
                                 Lenny

[Fla._Deadheader]

  What a bunch of Sissies.  

  My wife LOVED living without "Grid" electric.

  We had TV (21" color, electric kitchen appliances, All the hot water we could want, telephone, lights, Propane refrigerator. Nice hot showers in the bathroom from spring fed water tank.  Nuttin to it.  

  Can't get too deep into this thread. Leaving for CR on Thursday. Gotta go check up on Fred, and make sure he don't get into trouble.

[Rockn H]

When we are at our river camp, it's primitive in the winter.  During the summer too until we crankup the generator for the a/c.  We have a 300 gallon water tower we fill every 4 days or so.  Propane refigerator and hot water heater with oil lamps for light sometimes.  We have 3 deep cycle batteries we use to run a 2500 watt inverter.  It powers flourescent lights and the TV and satelite dish and ceiling fans.  I have a 3hp motor and a delco alternator that I recharge the batteries with.  When the temp. gets hot we crank up the generator for the A/C and other electrics.   About as off grid as we get.  If time ever permits, I would love to play with some wind and hydro power and do away with the generator all together.

[Buzz-sawyer]

Randy
Been livin close to nature since about 1984....we raise our garden and hunt for meat, we also use electricity....but are into  ALL KINDS of alternative energy. from wood gasification to biodiesel, to using the earth as a battery.
I do it because I enjoy a simpler life. And its fun.

[sprucebunny]

I lived on a 36 foot boat for three and a half years including one winter in Maine .It was the coldest winter in 50 years but we did get to plug in.
Other than that winter , we lived on 12 volt. And for 8 more summers, too .
Almost didn't connect my house to the grid and except for needing my Forestry Forum fix and a hot shower, I would be perfectly happy without electricity.
I plan on building a camp soon that will be off the grid. Gonna have to look into satilite internet

[Randy]

Well--------We got a Discussion started. I have been living OFF Grid for 5 years now and Looooooooooooovvvvveeee IT, but I do have a part-time Business that I work at, at night,(15 hr's per week) which is where my computer is. I bought my sawmill to cut lumber for my cabin that I am going to build down by my lake. I did buy the sawmill to cut my lumber to build my cabin. I bought it from a Sawyer that wanted to retire---------------so he sends me cutting jobs from his repeat customers that calls and didn't know he retired. Back to the Off-Grid. I do have several Large solar panels that keep my batteries charged. I do have TV, vcr, (Did have Dss Satelite, but to busy getting my Home-Stead set up to watch TV), running water, swimming pool, hot water and a fridge that run off of gas and I can run my AC(Window) on the hot nights. I pretty much have the things I need just like most people, but No Electric Bill each month, I do have a generator, but never use it. Gas cost me about $200 per year, but I heat my water and run my heat with gas, but that will be cut way back when I get the cabin built because I will install a outdoor wood furnace to heat the house and water(got slab's to burn ). Its not a Money thing at All, I am not rich, but if I were to win the lottery I don't feel I would want to live anywhere else or any other way-----------I Live exactly where I want---------------I Love to camp-------And thats how I started this------------camping there, put down a well(hand pump) ETC Etc, Etc. Then I moved there 5 years ago full time, except for hanging around my shop. I sell and repair CB's and CB related equipment at my night job.  My Girlfriend LOVES it Too, but she doesn't live there full time yet------------Waiting on our house/Cabin. One of our things we like to do is hang the Cast Iron pot over a fire and cook a stew, soup, etc. She had rather be planting or messing with the animals than to go to Wal*marts(boy did I find a Rare Find )  We do raise chickens, rabbits, guniea's, ducks, worms, crickets(sometimes), got our pecan, peach, pear, apple tree's growing, blueberry bushes and other things growing like our garden, We love Canning, making bread Etc. Its a Dream and My Hobby to one DAY--- go to town, get some supplies(rice, flour, sugar, salt, Etc). Come home and live for Months before having to go back to grocery store. I know this life is Not for alot of people, but I LOVE working towards that DAY of being Close to living a self-reliant life.   Randy

[Bro. Noble]

We used to raise all our food,  Had kerosene lamps and a battery radio.  We did have running water via a ram and a spring.  Had a Maytag with a gas engine.  That was a good life,  but the folks sure were happy when REA came through in 1947  Telephones didn't get to our neighborhood till about 1970.  Had to drive about 15 miles to a pay phone

I miss the neighborhood that exhisted then and am thankful for the memories of that way of life,  but NO WAY would I want to go back to it.

[Corley5]

My Great Grandmother Alice Collins-Vroman always said " The only thing good about the Good Old Days is they're gone"   
The old camp in the UP was wired up for twelve volts that we ran off the truck batteries.  Dad had two batteries in both vehicles for the lights and the trolling motor .  The well siphoned.  You could always tell when someone had been messing around with it because if the hose was picked up too far it quit running .  We kept a bucket of water inside next to the door and got  fresh water several times a day.  The water was super hard.  Orange iron deposits built up in the well overflow and stained the water bucket the same;D  The backhouse was out back.  One winter when we were there it was 28 below inside it.  The Coleman lamp warmed it up to 15 below.  We cooked burgers and steak outside over a wood fire but did have a gas cook stove.  Heat was a woodstove of course.  It was always fun to get on the roof to take the can off or put it back on the chimney.  The TV ran off the cigarette lighter in the truck and sometimes we got two channels.  Lots of good memories from weeks during the summer and weekends the rest of the year spent at "Bear Cabin" but it was always nice to come home to conveniences   The new cabin has power, indoor plumbing etc but still only two TV channels sometimes.  It's a great place but it's not the same

[Paschale]

hey Buzz...how do you use the earth as a battery?

[Buzz-sawyer]

paschale
Basically using zinc and copper driven into the earth .using soil as the "electrolite" is in a lead acid battery....try to get a pic for ya

[sawguy21]

No power and dad's idea of running water was two kids with buckets That was fine at the summer cottage for a week or so but I don't want to live that way.

[pigman]

Well DanG Randy, I misunderstood your first post. I thought you ment living without the creature comforts, instead you ment living off the grid. I sure would like to live off the grid but I'm just too lazy to do all the things necessary for that.

[Randy]

Well Pigman I was just getting a conversation started----------Some people on here might like to ROUGH-IT . I like the challege of having some modern things, but on solar. Alot of my neighbors think I want to be a Hermit-------------Far from that-------------I love having people to come and visit. I just enjoy very much doing what I am doing. I am going to try a Pic or two. This is some of my solar panels on a Home-Made Tracker.
This is a pic of My Lake. Love my Little Place. Randy

[UNCLEBUCK]

I roughed it a few times at log school decades ago , I enjoyed it . I like looking through the Lehmans catalog now and then . I just about go off the road when I see the amish out working their fields because it just seems peaceful, I once had a dream to build a big sailboat and live on it but thats as far as I got .  The closest I can get now to off the grid is finishing my outdoor wood boiler but even then I will have a small electric bill . I think maybe Mennonites are a good balance of now and then .I would love to live in a shack overlooking lake superior on the u.p. of michigan but I am stuck here in farm country . Good pics Randy , youre a interesting man 

[Randy]

Thanks Uncle Buck. My Dream started when I was a young buck-----------went camping on a local river------------got to exploring by boat and found a App 5 ac Island, it was so beautiful to me, completely surrounded by water and very hard to get to, for years I didn't know it was there even though I rode by it in the boat within 100yds a thousand times------------Well I went to this Island several times------------wanted to live on it-----------thought of camping on it for a month, but Time wouldn't let me do it---------and no one shared my interest, staying there for a few weeks right in the middle of the river swamps, kinda bothered me, incase I got hurt-----------I would be all alone-----------Cell pones were scarce then, but wouldn't have worked there anyhow. A few years later, on the backside of my property the beavers started daming up the "Run" of the swamp that crossed my property in a low area. It went from a ditch 8 to 10ft wide to--------I have app 15 acreas under water on my property, with a few acreas open like you see in the pic. It became more of a reality for me to camp back there for weeks at the time. I made me a small garden and got started-------------I have been camping, kept adding this and that, clearing it up some. I my eyes(beauty is in the eyes of the beholder) I have a beautiful place, That I soon hope I will have my cabin and be Living in. Sure I had rather be living up in the mountains with a creek running by, etc, etc, but I would Hate to leave my Kids and Family. All My family lives in this area. I will be Happy at My Place when I finish it.

Randy

[sprucebunny]

Randy
Do you live near the Waccammaw River ? The 2 winters we didn't live in Maine , we took the sailboat down the Intercoastal Waterway to Florida and my  favorite part was Conway, SC.
We went right off the chart and up the Waccammaw to the bridge just south of Conway. I dreamed for years of buying land along the river but when I went to look for some , it was too expensive. Also I don't like snakes 
We didn't have too many conviences on the boat....no tv, had to run the engine for hot water.Ice ( or frozen turkeys ) for refrigeration.  Always on an anchor or mooring...hate marinas.
I don't want to be a hermit either but I prefer to live away from the noise of roads and barking dogs and enjoy being as self-sufficient as possible. I like to rough it , too. But don't take my ATV away

[Gunny]

Just noticed this thread and feel so at-home reading of the various exploits.  I began doing this exact thing--and continue to do it in a modified degree--back in the early '70s in Norwich Township, Newaygo County, MI.  Back then, though, we just called it living simply.  This "off-the-grid" term must be something coined by the Manhattanites who took control of Mother Earth News years ago.

I was running a federal anti-poverty program and was dismayed when our then-Pres hijacked the fed monies which had been earmarked for rural housing projects and used it all to bomb Cambodia and Laos, instead.  So, I went looking at options.  Within a couple of months, my wife and I were building--to lots of media coverage and zillions of tourist-gawkers--our first geodesic dome on a lovely piece of land that we'd stumbled onto.  We cleared a few mature sassafras trees from the grove and hand-built (using all non-electric hand tools) a 26' diameter "Dyna-Dome".  We moved into it in the same month the Mother Earth crew ran the cover story on theirs (same size) that they'd built for "only" $28K.  We'd built ours, documented for the purposes of future grant proposals, etc., for $1,841.00. 

We heated with an old two-burner "kitchen stove" a fellow from the area had put out to the road for trash pick-up.  We lit the place at night with a single Alladin kerosene lamp.  We had a pitcher pump just outside the front door and our triangular outhouse was tucked discreetly back into the sassafras grove about 100 feet from our backdoor.  We "free-ranged" ducks and rabbits, bringing home loads of fresh fish from the region's lakes and streams and always had the larder filled with fresh venison.  All veggies were either grown on our place or bartered for with neighbors.  Our fresh milk came from the tanks of our dairy-farming-neighbor, the Township Building Inspector who respectfully never "inspected" anything.  Our monthly expenses ran under $100.00--for an extravagant month--and I've never been happier than during those days of honest living.

Odd that you reside near "Conway" S.C. , Randy, since my last name is "Conway"!  Karma?  I've been publishing homesteading/self-sufficiency pamphlets through our homestead's indie press (WoodSong Press) for years now and have been fortunate enough to have had several articles published through such diverse outlets as "BackHome Magazine", "Home Education Magazine", the American Forest Foundation's "Tree Farmer Magazine" and more.  I applaud your efforts and ingenuity.  My wife and four youngest children continue to foster the traditions of our ancestors and agree that a "simpler" life can be lived with dignity. 

I'm currently pursuing a terminal degree which has accepted the draft of my memoirs of these fabulous experiences as my major project/dissertation.  Frankly, I'm delighted that only a small percentage of us opt into this lifestyle.  It sure would get crowded in a hurry if there was a sudden rush to the country! Can you imagine how scarce the wild berries, fish, and game would become?  We might best remain in the shadows and only whisper of our great fortunes.

Best to you in all your efforts.  Connected in spirit...

"Gunny" Jim Conway
Rural Route 3
Lakeview, MI

[tnlogger]

 Randy i misunderstood you like pigman  good looking place you have there.

wnen i was just a little one we lived off the grid my dad took care of the barrons in blue hill maine from
1955 untill 1959. I dont remember how many acres of blueberrys. we lived in a tar paper shack with a well and not much else.

 You have brought back memorys of a youth that hard times but also great joy that I had completly forgot about.  Thanks for the bumb on the head to bring them to the surface again Gene 

[logman]

A few years ago my wife and I built a small log cabin, (16'x16') and had
solar power only for a few months.  Then the hot humid summer hit and
I ran power to it for a/c and refrigeration.  I looked at the whole
experience as a neat part of our lives but I don't think my wife feels the
same way.  We only lived in our cabin for a short time because her Dad
passed away and her Mom came and lived with us in a house we bought
in town.  I miss our little cabin,  I cut down the trees and hauled the logs
through the woods on a little cart that I pulled by hand.  We were trying
to live a debt free life which we were in the process of achieving.  We
still have very low debt compared to a lot of people.  We're just getting
our timber frame home completed after about 3+ years of hard work.

[Randy]

Thanks Everyone for your thoughts and compliments!!!

Sprucebunny------------------I live close to Little Pee Dee River(LPDR), which the water you see in the pic's flows into the LPDR a few miles downstream, but there are so many beaverdams to cross it would take ALOT of work to travel to the river with a Small 1 man boat. The LPDR dumps into the Big Pee Dee River then into the Intercoastal Water Way.  I think the Waccamaw River is a pretty river Too, but the LPDR is ---in my opinion---more beautiful, but its a shallow river. Any boat with more than 2ft below the water or more than a few feet wide is OUT--would be stuck on a sand bar or wedged between two tree's. Land in this County is Like Gold expecially along the rivers in developed area's.

Gunny- I  subscribe to Backwoods Home mag, but hadn't heard of most of the others you mentioned-----------have to check them out.  I guess I should be thankful that only a small percentage of people are interested in this life--------------it would be a "Mess" if 1000's were to go to the country to live self-reliant. Its like I have found a way of life that I LOVE and I want to share the experience, But I guess I best keep My Mouth Shut . Some people might think its a money thing, but its not for me, Sure I like having a little "nest egg" but money is not the thing---I own a Nice 2200sqft brick home---located on a 3 acre track with pond etc and its payed for, But I rent it out, because I let it sit unlived in for several years, because I love my place by the Lake-----------so I rented it out, I also own a few mobile homes and lots that I rent out------------I am not bragging-----------I just want people to understand I don't have to live where I live-----------I WANT and LOVE to live where I live and the way I live. When I get my Cabin Built----The Joy will be Greater!!
Everyone---keep the conversation going------------I Love hearing about your experience. Randy

[Doc]

I am looking at getting away from it all this way myself....which fortunately, is what landed me here.

The idea of not letting the local utility control my lights and heat appeals to me greatly. Having my neighbors as close or as far away from me as I choose to have them is also appealing. I miss working around a small farm, raising animals, hunting, growing veggies, making what I need. I desire to live a bit more simply than I am forced to live in this day and age.

I grew up in a small town in Mississippi, and have been gone from there now going on 20 years, and miss the place. It is not the same as it once was from what I have been told. I miss being around cattle, and a garden the size of Texas (seemed like it when I had to do the weeding as a kid.....), catching dinner on a cane pole, and not having the traffic wake me up at night. I miss the sounds of crickets, and the stars I could see as a kid in the night sky. I want to get back to that. I want to design my way of doing all over again, and build my own timberframe home.....which is how I ended up here.

Now I am 36. I work in the millitary defense arena in Huntsville Alabama, and live in town too. People are in a big hurry here, but really have nowhere to go. they want to hurry up and go, gotta get this done yesterday, gotta make bank today, gotta go faster, gotta work harder...not smarter, gotta be found keeled over dead at my keyboard at the ripe old age of 50 (I know this isn't old, but around here you woul dthink it was the bitter end).

Something has to change here. If not for everyone else then for me. if what I work in is what is called progress then when do we hit the height of it all?

My two oldest kids graduate from high school in 2 and 3 years respectively. I am working at getting the money I need to "start over" while they are still at home, and will start over when they are gone.

Some of you guys have the right idea in living simply. Alot more of you have no idea how good you have it. Some of the folks I know around here that live the way some of you do (country living) think I am rich or something.....I wish I was. I woudl trade places with them in a heartbeat. I know given the chance I could make it happen for me the way I want it to.

I have loved reading this thread, and looking at the pics. Please don't stop now.

Doc

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Just went through some old books and found this toll free number for the Arkansas Energy Dept. Might be of some help. They printed the books that I have on

"Achieving Self-reliance: Backyard Energy Lessons".

"New and Improved Energy for Arkansas".

  1-800-482-1122   This info was brand new in         1984 

[Randy]

Well Doc------------Here is a few more pic's!!
3 week old ducks got a few guinea's This is a pic of me and my dog sitting on the patio--with a partcial view of the lake in the back ground. Cabin will be built to my left Guess I better get off my butt and get busy building . Randy

[Norm]

Sure has been fun reading about what others do to be self sufficient. We lived in cities for much of our younger years and hated every minute of it. Finally in 1990 we moved out to an acreage in the middle of nowhere, a  few years latter we bought a farm. The lifestyle change has been great. Instead of taking a vacation to get away from it all we close the gate on our deadend road. Walks down by the crick that runs through the middle of our place is so relaxing, then down to the pond to see if the fish I stocked last year are fat enough to eat yet. We try to grow as much of our food as possible, big garden lots of poultry and a pond that's full of crappie and bluegill.  Every year we butcher a steer, a pig and a couple of deer ourselves. Sure don't make the money we would living in an urban area but surprisingly, to me especially, money isn't as important as it used to be. Don't get me wrong I enjoy making a good living but the drive to get more and more is not what I desire now. Things like family friends that kind of stuff is what matters most.

Your place looks great Randy, thanks for showing us.

[Doc]

I see free or cheap breakfast, lunch and dinner, a fine christmas duck dinner, and lots of entertainment of watching those birds running around chasing the dog or being chased.

That view from that chair looks really nice. I would be found under a tree with a cane pole asleep. I wouldn't want to bait the hook for fear of being woke up.....hahahaha.

I will find my place here soon. It is coming, and I am looking.

Doc

[Doc]

Sure has been fun reading about what others do to be self sufficient. We lived in cities for much of our younger years and hated every minute of it. Finally in 1990 we moved out to an acreage in the middle of nowhere, a  few years latter we bought a farm. The lifestyle change has been great. Instead of taking a vacation to get away from it all we close the gate on our deadend road. Walks down by the crick that runs through the middle of our place is so relaxing, then down to the pond to see if the fish I stocked last year are fat enough to eat yet. We try to grow as much of our food as possible, big garden lots of poultry and a pond that's full of crappie and bluegill.  Every year we butcher a steer, a pig and a couple of deer ourselves. Sure don't make the money we would living in an urban area but surprisingly, to me especially, money isn't as important as it used to be. Don't get me wrong I enjoy making a good living but the drive to get more and more is not what I desire now. Things like family friends that kind of stuff is what matters most.

Your place looks great Randy, thanks for showing us.

You found what I am looking for.

I can always find a way to make money, but peace and quiet are worth more than money sometimes.

Doc

[SwampDonkey]

Corley5,

My grandmother had the same message. She worked hard all her life, as did grandfather and they would tell ya straight up what you could do with the good old days.

[Roxie]

My Grandfather was a tobacco farmer in the mountains of North Carolina until he passed away in 1989.  No electric whatsoever, no phone, no running water (we had to haul in buckets from the spring which was also the refrigerator), the outhouse was a quarter mile uphill from the house, and the only heat was a wood stove which was used for cooking in the kitchen.  The best food I ever ate in my life came off that woodstove.   
He raised hogs and chickens, and had his own cow.  All the meat was smoked or salted to perserve it.  We took baths in a tub in the kitchen.
I was the luckiest kid in the world to have a Grandaddy like him.  He didn't watch TV, he told stories....and he sure could spin a yarn.  I used to like to look at the back of his neck which looked like leather from years in the sun.  He talked real slow and deliberate and he sure spit a lot!   

[Patty]

My Grampa was a tobacco farmer in Wisconsin's Kickapoo Valley.  When the kids were old enough they worked the farm, and then Grampa got a job running the road grator, while Gramma took in sewing for folks. They heated with a wood stove up until Grampa died. I'll never forget his hands. They were big and calloused. His fingers were so large he couldn't hold a coffee cup, so he drank from the saucer. Those are good memories of Gram & Gramps...he always wore bib overalls, with no buttons done up on the sides, plus a green hat with white polka dots.    I guess now you know where I got all my fashion sense!

[asy]

Well, I must say, I've enjoyed this thread...

Photos, PLEASE, everyone!

I can't wait for the day we are living on a farm.

Well, I say 'farm', but I really mean big acreage, as we will never work it as a production farm, it'd kill me.

I am looking forward to having our own chooks for eggs. Not quite sure I could kill one for meat, as I've never done it before. Will have to wait till someone comes to visit and shows me how!

Am looking forward to my own veggie garden...

Am pretty sure I could never live without electricity, as I don't think I could pedal fast enough to get enough power to run the computer

asy

[Randy]

Well, I must say, I've enjoyed this thread...
Photos, PLEASE, everyone!
I am looking forward to having our own chooks for eggs. Not quite sure I could kill one for meat, as I've never done it before. Will have to wait till someone comes to visit and shows me how!

Am looking forward to my own veggie garden...

Am pretty sure I could never live without electricity, as I don't think I could pedal fast enough to get enough power to run the computer

asy

Asy------I have not killed any of my chickens or any of my animals for meat yet. I did as a boy coming up, Moma would say "catch that chicken and cut his head off or wring his neck" being the "Tough" boy it was fun then. Not sure now-I think I could do it. Talking about electricity------I have electricity from the solar panels, batteries, inverter and ETC, I just have to be careful about how much I use. When I get my cabin built and get set-up, I will probably have to crank up the generator to wash clothes, then hang then on a line to dry. But I am not sure yet, If I can produce the electricity it will take for my Added Family once the cabin is built. Right now its just me-----then it will be my Girlfriend(might could persuade her to marry me then ) and a young boy, and possibly her older daughter if we can't get her married off by then (my G-friend is going to kill me). I am running off of 4 solar panels right now and its all I need, but its only me and I cheat by washing my clothes at my shop , But I have 17 more solar panels in storage just waiting for that CABIN . I am sure the Girls will want to run the hair-dryer (But that will be limited) ------I will make them sit on the porch with a HAND FAN---to dry their hair , Being serious now-I want know till that happens how many watts of electricity it will take for the Extra Family, but they are already a Energy conservative family. I feel that once I have the 21 solar panels up and running----we will be ok, but I want mind cranking up the generator a couple times a week for a hour or two if needed.


 I like hearing all of you members stories Too. Tell Me More!! Randy

Oh yea Roxie---My Girlfriends name is Roxie(Real name, Roxanne), that Is why I didn't put her name above-Don't want to get everyone confused .

[etat]

You know what.  I remember pumping water out of a well when I was little, cause I had too.  Taking a bath in a washtub on the back porch. No indoor bathroom, just a outhouse out back. I remember that ole house with all them breezes coming through cause of lack of insulation, and trying to help keep wood or coal in that fireplace to keep from freezing.  I remember laying under enough old quilts at night to try to keep warm that I'd wake up tired just from the weight of em.  I remember getting up and RUNNING to that there fireplace to try to get warm.

I remember that I really like to go camping.  Live in a tent a couple of weeks and just get back to nature and away from it all.  I like to go canoing and camp out on the river.

But you know what I really like.  I like electricity.  I like air conditioning.  I like TV, computers, and occasionally a radio.  I like indoor plumbing with warm and cold water.  I like lights that come on when you turn on a switch.  I like being comfortable in my bed.  I guess I'm just done got spoiled.

Yep, I really like getting next to nature sometimes, but I just don't think I'd a want to live there.

[rpg52]

Interesting thread.  A California native, I grew up in the Central Valley farming area - couldn't wait to leave, agribiz cultivates all the land and leaves no habitat.  The air pollution made the view of the coast range a little dimmer every year.  Moved to Sierra Nevada at 2600', mixed conifer forest and bought 25 ac. (about 1980)  Thought of solar electric, but it didn't make sense with a powerline already running through the place.  Same with water, had good treated water 100 yards away.  Built a home, and got out of debt by ~1990.  Heat water with solar collectors, and with a loop through the wood stove, mostly keep the electric bill around $40.  Raise peaches, apples, pears, cherries, blueberries, raspberries.  Garden with sweet corn, potatoes, tomatoes, squash, beans,etc.  How much I can/freeze/dry depends on the year.  Helped start a food co-op for grains, cheese and other stuff- still going but only every few months.  Used to make all my bread, not so much now.  Still brewing beer, have a batch going now.  Just have some new chickens, after the bear ate my others last fall.  Had to build a better door on the coop, hope it discourages him.  Used to have bees, lots of work though, just when the garden was starting.  Was partners with a pair of Percheron work horses, but couldn't really keep them busy, so let my partner take them over.  The latest project is an old Belsaw circle mill, hence my visits to the FF.  Hope to have it going by summer, but also need to replace my roof too, so will have to set my priorities.  All in all life is good, even though the world scene (and even our own part of North America) gives me much cause for worry.  Very thankful for what I have and where I live.  Ray

[SwampDonkey]

I can remember the same things as CK recalls. Although, I never had to be smothered by blankets, but it was still cold when you could sit on the only heat register in the house and still be cold with a gravity fed furnace. I remember a 30 x 25 foot woodshed full of wood as well as a cellar full. I remember the old house wrapped up like a caccoon with plastic to keep the wind out in winter. I remember when a new pump was put in, the well was already dug but we was using a cisturn for washing. I can remember the rats gettin in that and drowning (what a lovely thought) 

What I'de like to know is how cheep do ya figure that generator is gonna be running, along with its costs of maintenance and the costs of the solar panels. A six gallon jub of gas here costs $28.50, how long will that last in an inefficient gas engine? How are ya gonna keep your meat from turning green? Your milk from turnin into cheese? Your jam from turnin mouldy after ya open it and sit it around in the heat for several days? Grampa used to cut the green off the pork in the oat barrel and eat it after, are you gonna? He had an ice house that kept stuff untill mid summer, do you have ice in winter for a summer ice house? Now, when do ya have time to go to work during the day job? It will take the dedication of the whole family to make that way of life work. If one person does it and the rest get waited on, I wonder how long that will last? I think of all that and say $55-70/month to run a whole house is way cheaper and more convenient. I don't waste electric because I hardly use a light at night unless I need to find or read something. I use the clothes line when I can during summer months, I can't get to it because of snow in winter.

My grandmother used to say the good old days are now. And mother always said that the later years were the best times of my grandparents' lives.

There aren't many today that would crawl up in a Hudson Bay sleeping blanket and stay with a horse in a hovel during the cold winter months, while working in the woods. No wonder the old man had the Rumatoid Arthritis and ached all over as if he was run over. Just some things to think about during the time you spend at the day job.

[Gunny]

I don't know that the consideration of living the simpler life demands that all current ("modern") amenities be discounted and/or disposed with.  Humanity seems to have embraced, for better or for worse, almost all technologies which have surfaced which are supposed to aid in the creation of a "better" life. 

Frankly, having spent over two years living in the absolute filth of a jungle hole and another six months without the benefit of a shower or bath tub in a desert, I'm sticking with my hot and cold running water until the end of my days.  I ,too, enjoy the benefits offered through my relationship with our rural electric cooperative and don't have any plans to trade my refrigerator-freezer for the ice-pit we used while building our log cabin years ago.  And we all enjoy our PBS affiliate immensely.  Inasmuch as I'm the laundry-guy in this household, I'm hanging on to that auto-washer with glee while line-drying everything.  We use an Amish rack-dryer throughout the stormy months.  I don't think my desire to utilize a few of the current "tools" available is much different than those folks who opted for oil lamps over wax candles, iron tools over stone, wheeled vehicles over sledges, air-tight woodstoves over fireplaces, etc.  Isn't it really more about a state of mind?

There's not much discussion about the effects of the stresses we moderns have placed upon us--either externally or internally--which seem, often, to have driven us (especially we North Americans) to become obsessed with self-medications.  Oftentimes, our destructive behaviors may well reflect a state of being that no amount of technologically-advanced creature comforts can or will ever soothe.  In my weaker, consumptive moments of my life, the options I chose to conform to the "norms" around me allowed me the pleasure of hours-long commutes, numerous lights blinking on my 10-line phone, 100-hour work weeks and near total isolation from those I loved.  All the amenities my money bought did little to bring a balance into the life of "busy."

I've lived in a cave and could do very well--alone--doing that again.  Certainly, I'd never think of asking anyone else to try to share those primal pleasures since our culture is so absolutely removed from that reality.  The question might be this:  If the (sub)urban or "metro" life is so replete with those items which should bring such pleasure into our lives, how is it that we present ourselves, socially and culturally, as, perhaps, the least happy of all peoples on this planet?  Consumption of tobacco, alcohol, and over and under-the-counter drugs, coupled with the rampant (mis)diagnoses of supposed personality "issues" is almost overwhelming. 

Perhaps it is time that we all  try to get just one more footstep closer to the garden?

[Patty]

This is a great thread.

As I grow older, I find myself getting closer and closer to the land. Life is harder when you produce most of your own food, heat, etc; but I also think it is more rewarding. Like CK, I like the comforts of a home with electricity and running water; and I can remember as a child taking baths in a big metal tub mom put out on the kitchen floor. No wonder we only bathed once a week back then! Each of us makes choices, do I live in the city and make buckets of money and wear a suit to work, or do I live in the country, create my own jobs, wear whatever I want and use my buckets to haul grain to the animals. Norm & I butcher our own meat. It is hard work, and very time consuming, but it is our choice to do this extra work. It means alot to me to know where the meat was raised and how the animal was treated and how it was slaughtered. Again that is a choice we made, we certainly could go to the store and buy the meat they offer; it is just not as fulfilling as producing our own. Same with vegetables and fruit.

I can't say that folks who choose a lifestyle similar to mine are better than those that don't. I can say I have found happiness in the choices I have made. I'm not so sure that others can say the same. They don't seem so happy being a part of the rat race; but who am I to judge. 

[Buzz-sawyer]

Swampy
Sounds like some less than enjoyable memories you have there.....mine are of the smell of hickory burning in the cold air, rich warm black dirt in my hands in the spring, sounds of birds singing in the rain showers..........checking a trapline before its really light and seeing red over the river.The satisfaction of grinding burger, and stuffing sausage outta meat I hunted, killed, skinned , butchered ........and devoured.
Of seeing my kids play with chickens, or run wild in the creek bottoms.........(these are this last years memories!)
The less cash I NEED to support this habit the better (the habit is country livin).so the simpler the better. I am not religiously amish, or compulsively anti anything......I, like you LOVE refrigeration and electric power.SOOO useful! BUT . a sense of appreciation for the things we have seems to make them all the more enjoyable....and I think slowing down and livin life instead of chasing after an illusion of life, or the dollar is what I am describing. livin GOOD now not  livin fast paced and disconnected now so so one day we might be able to live a good life. So often SOMEDAY never comes!
From what I have read from you you live a fairly rustic and country life too.

[Randy]

Swampdonkey
 I am Sure the Life some of us choose to live is not of interest to others, Its just like Drinking, smoking, doing drugs, cussing, Whore-hoping, golfing, playing ball, in dept up to the roof, living beyond their means, Etc. There is alot of people that has these habits/hobbies/lifestyles----------I feel if that is what they want, then that is their business. I am Happy for them--Really because Thats What they Want. Me, I don't do any of the above, I love going to church, fishing, hunting some,  raising some animals, and LOVE Camping and my hobbies are sawing logs and becoming as Self sufficient as I can. I sure know what its like to live in a house that had no heat at night after the heater burnt out, with 8 home-made quilts laying on top of me, getting up in the mornings and it would be so cold any liquid that was sitting around would be froze on the colder nights, getting that heater fire going so the rest of the family could get up to some warmth----no bathroom, not even a out-house(had to go in the woods)no hot water except to boil it on the stove, taking a bath a couple times aweek in a no. 3 wash tub. Other than "Roughing it" camping I too don't want to go back to that life style. But if some of you do---------I would Love to hear about it, might pick up some good Idea's.


 I have to have my shower daily, maybe more some days. I Never put on dirty Clothes when I get up in the mornings. I just Like the challege of building and doing things to become as self reliant as possible. I want my TV and my Hot water, shower, but I feel that its not good for my kids to sit in front of the TV 8hrs per day. When My G-friend and her kids come over to my place for a day--her kids bring video games to hook to my TV, but they are limited to the amount of time they can sit indoors and play them. Give them some seeds to plant and a little garden spot for thierselfs, they can feed the animals, get up the eggs, help with choirs, fish etc. I want them to know more than Videio Games.  I personally want some of the things that make life simplier, like a Washing machine, Tv a AC for the hot nights(cant sleep Hot), a fridge, but if My Solar power is Low because of a few rainy days in a row, I want get upset that I can't watch TV for a day or two. I sure want run a generator to watch TV or use a electric can opener, but if it is nessary I WILL run the generator to wash clothes(a scrub board don't fit my hands) or to run the water pump to build the pressure up for a quick shower. To clear up the AC deal------------I only Cool the bedroom and only had to run it 3 nights last summer. I use a energy efficient fan alot. If the windows are open and the house is where it get alot of evening shade--it is fairly cool at night. It don't cost alot to run or keep-up a generator if you only run it 2 or 3 hours per week. As far as keeping meats, milk, etc--I will always have a gas/electric refridgerator, but I will try to use it on solar more than on gas, but most of our meats will be in a walking type fridge until needed--------you know what I mean--------chickens in the pen, rabbits, fish in the lake. We are getting into learning the proper way of Canning meats(bought a Big, nice Canner), Already dehydrating some meat making jerky etc. So keeping meat want require alot of electric or gas. I enjoy getting some deer meat from some of my customers, cutting it up, grinding it with my grinder making jerky with my jerky gun. I dehydrate vegetables too. I want everyone to know it will cost more to convert or build a solar house than it will to go total electric and pay the light bill--the upkeep of solar can cost and if you are not willing to cut back on your electric usage, that would mean a Larger more expencive Solar System. You can build a solar set-up for just a few hundred dollars, but a good set-up to run a average home with a average light bill could cost more than $50,000. When I get my cabin built and get all my solar panels up and running I will have more than $15,000 in solar alone. This is probably more than I need and ALOT more than I would have ever bought but I ran across a DEAL on about $13,000 of solar items(Give a used 4wheeler worth no more than $2000--Even swap----Good Deal for me).  You can pay alot of light bills with that much cash. For my living by myself I got a $2000 set-up and its pretty much All I need. But when I get the cabin/house built my family will increase, so It will be nice having All the Solar panels. As I told you all before its not about the money to me----its about doing what I love, its about being able to Close the Gate if I wanted and be able to live for months without having to open the gate to go out. This will probably not happen, but it would be nice to know I could if I wanted. Trying to become Self-reliant is My HOBBY. Randy

[Rockn H]

Randy, I have a lot of fun trying to find more power down at the camp.  It's wired up now so when we get there we turn on the inverter and it's like there was a meterloop outside.  2500 watts run the lights ,ceiling fan, TV, satelite.  It will run the pump to fill our water tower, if everything is off.  It's a regular shallow well pump so we could use it without the tower, but with gravity fed water there's plenty for several days use and it's so quiet. There is plenty pressure for a good shower .  With doing dishes, showers, flushing the commode(it and the shower are inside )the tower will last about 4 days before refilling.  The air conditioner during the summer is all we have to run a generator for.  If I wanted to add another 2500 watt inverter I could do away with the generator and will one day.  Of course the fridge and water heater are propane. 
A friend of mine switch to sprint  so he could go wireless on his laptop.  He came down a while back and showed me a (card?) that goes in the side of his laptop with a little antenna.  It lets the laptop call up the internet just like it was using a land line (regular telephone line).  Internet service no matter where you are.  To me thats what is nice, not roughing it, just being unhooked from everything and still keeping the amenities close.  Hightech- redneck?

[Randy]

Rockn H---------Sounds Like I have a High-Tec Redneck Brother out there ---Questions------------What are you charging the batteries with that you are running the 2500 watt inverter on? How many batteries? It takes ALOT of batteries to run a AC over night on a warm night that the compressor runs alot.  I also run a 2500 watt inverter, but I have a 5000 in storage that I will get out when I get my cabin built. My 2500 runs my shallow well waterpump good. I burn't out several 12 volt demand pumps before I went to the shallow well pump. I have a 60 gal storage tank so my pump doesn't have to start up as much-----------That start-up is TOUGH on the wattage draw!!! How do you have the water tower set-up? How High? Randy

[SwampDonkey]

Buzz and Randy,

In summer I'm sometimes gone for days in the bush living out of a tent and cooking and lighting with coleman products. I set up my tent when I arrive. I try to find a sheltered place from the wind. I have a 20 x 30 tarp that I tie to surrounding trees in case it rains hard and I have a dry place to sleep, eat and recline. I have a nice cot and sleeping bag and I also take a portable DVD player that I can recharge with the invertor in the truck. It's good for 4 hours. Sometimes I just go to bed early and get up before the sun shines and in summer that can be before 5 am up here. I prepare some of my foods at home, such as sandwiches and cooked casseroles or meats, boiled eggs, green salad so when I get back to camp I'm not all night cooking. All I have to do is warm up my main dishes. Can't forget the coffee for mornings and i do have a stainless coffee perk, but I started using instant at my camp setup because it saves on water. I have a 20 gallon water jug that lasts me for up to 4 days and I take sponge baths daily after I come in from the bush. I make very little garbage, unless its from prepackaged food, and I take it back home always. My main reason  for doing this as part of my work is to save on long travel distances, gas, and wear and tear on the pickup. I usually am quite comfortable from mid May to the end of September. I like to see my little warm nest and warm shower at home at the end of the week though.

cheers

[Randy]

Hey SwampDonkey
 I like your set-up. I kinda did the same thing but had a couple of extra batteries tied into the charging system of the 'truck' car that I would disconect from the charging system(to cheap to buy a isolator and didn't trust them--might drain my cranking battery) while camping. It gives alot more TV time or what ever you need electric for. I even used a average size bug light to draw the bugs away from me also gave me some night light. I also use a 12volt drop light hanging over my stove area---didn't have to buy flashlight batteries or fuel for other lights. Then when I get ready to head back home--I plug my batteries back up to the charging system. Charge them while driving back home etc. All a man has got to have is a Dream and Desire to do something and some time--And he will figure out "His" best way to get that desire done over time. If the will and desire is strong enough---You can move a mountain--Look at how much dirt a handful of ants can move
 They are steady and carry a load that they can handle-----So---Don't get your dreams and desires to high. You are sure to fail!! Be realistic. Randy

[Doc]

I have looked at the solar setups, and to some degree that isn't bad....costly, but not bad. I am investigating all kinds of ways to make up the difference in what I have in town, and how I can have something similar in the middle of nowhere without going broke doing it. I will live without alot of things that I now consider useless when I leave town, but I will still remain comfortable if things work out based on "the plan".

I say again, some of you don't realize how good you have it.

Doc

[Bro. Noble]

Well,  I guess I'm in style and didn't know it

I get up before daylight every day and go to bed early.

We raise a lot of our stuff and could get by without ever buying meat.

I don't average going to town more than once a month except to church.

We don,t buy stuff we can't pay for.

We generate our own electricity when REA is down.

We pick quite a lot of greens from the wild during the summer and watercress in the winter.

Never thought much about this stuff.  It's just life on the farm and I love it for the most part.

We used to do stuff like making soap and molasses,  raise our own grain,  and raised all of our own food and meat.  I don't find that stuff all that romantic and it's often more economical to buy it.

About 30 years ago a bunch of 'back to nature children'  moved into the neighborhood.  They were going to show the local people how to live 'self sufficiently'  At that time there were a lot of old timers in the neighborhood that never new anything but providing for themselves.  They didn't care for the newcomers because they were forever wanting to borrow stuff.  Most of them left and became 'yuppies'    One stayed and is my good neighbor------he lives about the same as I do

[Randy]

Bro Noble-----------------You Are In Style!!! Tell me about The GREENS you are picking in the wild!!! Am I passing up some good wild green eating? Randy

[Bro. Noble]

The polk is up here now.  That's what I eat the most of because it's easy to find and pick and to me there isn't that much difference in the taste of any of them.  My Mom doesn't agree with that and wants some others mixed in.  Ones that we pick are Carpenter's Square, Dock,  Lambs Quarter,  Mouse ear,  Dandilion,  and probably others that I'm not thinking of right now. 

I eat a lot of canned greens from the store.  They also taste much the same and are cheap   Mustard greens,  turnip greens,  and collard greens.

Also from the woods are spicebush tea,  sassafrass tea,  and greenbriar sprouts;  along with nuts and berries.  You can eat 'indian turnips'  if you want,  but be sure to cook them.  They are the roots of the 'Jack -in-the-pulpit' plant and will set you on fire when raw

[Randy]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm---------I guess I don't have "Polk" around here, We got a plentiful weed here that looks like mustard leaves on it--it grows like a collard hill, not as full of leaves and flowers out quick with yellow flowers. I call it wild mustard----------I don't know what it is. What does POLK look like? Randy

[Rockn H]

Randy, right now I have 3 batteries that I'm charging with a 3.5hp briggs and a delco alternator.  That's why we're using a gen. for the A/C.  When we move the camp before long I'm planning on trying some hydro power.  Right now I charge the batteries for an hour or so every morning.  Our water tank is 300 gal. and around 18' high.  I would say the pressure is around 20lbs. 
Polk salad with eggs, now that has gritts beat.  
The leaves resemble mustard greens with a dark stalk up to 3' high.  Likes fresh cleared ground and burnovers.  Needs to be boiled and drained several times before cooking.
These pics are from a post entitled River Camp.
Here you can see the water tower above the camp, just to the right of the tree.


This one shows the bank.  It jumps about 20' during the year.  Makes it a challenge for hydro power.

[Bro. Noble]

R-H,
I just use the very newest polk leaves and steam them with a piece of bacon.  When they are about done (good and wilted) I add salt and vinigar. 

Randy,

You could do a search on polk.  There was a picture of polk( probably on the plant ID forum), but it was old.  It gets a red stalk and purple berries,  but by that time it isn't good to eat.  Best way to learn your local greens is to have someone local show you.  About any old-timer in the country should be able to show you.  I used to pick greens with my Grandma before I was school age.  I've forgotten a lot of what she taught me,  but my Dad knows lots of edible plants.

[beav]

   I have been living off grid since '98. When I moved into this house(I mizered out of the woods)I never hooked it up. It was only a couple thou more to go with a solar setup than pay for a few power poles. It is a small system but sufficient for me and my three kids.
   I use solar hot water(wood-fired in winter), heat with wood, and use propane for cooking and the fridge. I don't think my lifestyle is compromised at all. We have running hot and cold water, a well built well insulated house(a saltbox that faces south).In the winter during cloudy periods I run my diesel generator to throw a quick charge into the batteries, usually less than 100 hours /year. Other than that there is enough elec. for a normal if ,tv deprived, life.
    My next goal here is to get some gardens going, chickens etc.

[Rockn H]

Way to go beav!
Bro. Noble, we use all the leaves.  After boiling and draining a few times we scramble eggs in with it.   We boil and drain to keep from making you sick.  Maybe thats since we use all the leaves?  Or maybe it's because all our grandma's did it?   
If anyone wants to try Polk Salad I saw Brookshire's has it in a can now.  First it was Boudin now it's Polk Salad, is nothing sacred?