Author Topic: Solved: Tulip Poplar (Read 2328 times)

Don P · « **on:** June 03, 2002, 11:30:37 am »

A name I've heard given to several trees, this is ours.

bjorn · « **Reply #1 on:** June 03, 2002, 01:42:17 pm »

poplar, tulip poplar, yellow poplar, liriodendron tulipera (something like that).

Don P · « **Reply #2 on:** June 03, 2002, 03:16:46 pm »

That's it Bjorn

, the latin is actually liriodenron tulipifera

(yaa, you made me go to the books

).
The reason I posted the pic (aside from the pretty blooms) is up north aspen is often called popple or poplar. Not a big deal normally, but I and others have posted about using poplar for dimensional framing. Its strength is close to southern yellow pine. Aspen (bigtooth and trembling) is rated with the northern species, along with white pine, red pine, western red cedar, ponderosa pine, eastern hemlock, balsam poplar.
Not a reason to avoid the other woods but a reason to know exactly what you've got sometimes, a yellow poplar 2x8 joist can span 2 feet further under the same load than an aspen joist of the same size

.

bjorn · « **Reply #3 on:** June 04, 2002, 06:08:37 am »

Where can I find span tables for tulip poplar? as I am cutting alot of this wood for my barn. Thanks.

Don P · « **Reply #4 on:** June 06, 2002, 08:55:48 pm »

Hi Bjorn,
sorry to have dropped out for a couple of days, we travelled down to her Mom's. I'm starting to get the hang of this web tv.
I'm carrying a couple of engineering, span and code books back up with me and have more stuff already at the job in IL. Long story short, I don't have a table for poplar but am comparing design values from several sources (Fb and e values), doing the math then confirming by comparing the results to tables for species with similar design values that I do have tables for. I'll be back up there in about a week. IM me if that will work and I'll show you what I've got.
In VA be sure to answer questions appropriately. This is strictly an ag building you are proposing, strictly for farm use...there will be NO other uses...been there paid for that permit

Corley5 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 07, 2002, 06:25:26 am »

So that's what tulip poplar looks like

The leaves look similar to a maple but different. They do have pretty flowers. What's there northern limit?

Ron Scott · « **Reply #6 on:** June 07, 2002, 08:02:44 am »

I know its in West Virginia.

swampwhiteoak · « **Reply #7 on:** June 07, 2002, 09:22:53 am »

Tuliptree range:
Eastern - Atlantic coast
Western - Around the Illinois state line, little piece of Missouri, and part of Louisiana
Northern - South Central Michigan and New York state
Southern- Gulf of Mexico and south central florida

In my not so humble opinion the best tulip grows in W.Va, Va, and eastern KY. Basically the southern alleghennies and the cumberland plateau.

woodmills1 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 07, 2002, 10:30:34 am »

we dont have it in NH but i do remember some fine specimins from my WVa days.

Ron Scott · « **Reply #9 on:** June 07, 2002, 05:43:50 pm »

One could almost hear it growing on the Monongahela National Forest in West Virginia. The Monongahela Decision against clear-cutting stopped much of its harvest however.

Don P · « **Reply #10 on:** June 07, 2002, 09:22:16 pm »

At home, north of the sy pine range, it is as fast growing as the pines and strong. Grows like a weed, the seed is viable forever and wants to sprout, I like it. It took over the old chestnut stands. While Jasper took us for a walk today on a nice greenway on the Broad River I learned that its a member of the magnolia family.

L. Wakefield · « **Reply #11 on:** June 08, 2002, 01:31:29 pm »

And- believe it or not!- it is actually listed in the book Trees of Maine. As an introduced species of course- but says it does OK. I just love those trees! How high off the ground were those blossoms in the picture, DonP? lw

Ron Wenrich · « **Reply #12 on:** June 08, 2002, 07:19:38 pm »

From logyard

To carriage:

To the grade pile:

Poplar grows well in our area, but to get the large areas of sapwood, you need it to grow down south. They need at least 1/3 sap for veneer.

It grows very well up to about 36". The biggest I've sawn is about 40" and that takes a long time, since I don't have a top saw.

You get very good amounts of F1F and better lumber off of the butts and second cuts. The lumber shown here is 10/4. destined for the Canadian markets. I've sawn 16/4 boards that were 20" wide, and clear on both sides. The lumber stackers hate when you do that.

Here's something to ponder. I was told that those large pillars on those southern mansions were made from quartered tulip poplar trees. I have no way of knowing if that's true, but it would be a very large tree to be quartered into those sizes.

Jeff · « **Reply #13 on:** June 08, 2002, 08:38:08 pm »

Hey how come the picture of your carriage is backwards? Cause its a Canadian Morbark?

Don P · « **Reply #14 on:** June 08, 2002, 08:50:56 pm »

Those blooms were only a little over head high on a ~24" yard tree at home that I keep having the best intentions of limbing up. Its not unusual to go clear 32' in the woods and I've seen plenty go more. The old giant on the housesite was 6' across the stump...but unfortunately waist deep inside the rotten heart.
The largest I've seen was 2 men and a boy around cbh (circumference, boy height).
Our barn and rent house are both 24' wide with 12' spans. I framed with 2x10 joists 16" on center. The barn is loaded...with ag type stuff...wood, half a dozen engines, a truck, you know the usual

One joist failed, but from a spike knot in the lower side, bad grading on my part, other than that it seemed to be a good overkill size for that species and span.
A lot of clapboard siding was made from it. We ran paint grade moldings, shutters, mantles etc. out of it as well. Its an old favorite for lumber core and good grades of veneer core plywood. A good finisher can imitate alot of woods on it as well...a very versatile tree.

Jeff · « **Reply #15 on:** June 08, 2002, 10:04:38 pm »

An interesting fact about the largest of the tulip poplar is that they can no longer be polinated by Bees. Bees can only fly to a height of 40 or 50 feet. Two of this nations historic trees are the Tulip Poplars planted in 1785 by George Washington at Mount Vernon. They are now manually pollinating the individual flowers, one by one, relying on a lift bucket and Q-tips. Seeds can then be collected so the offspring of these trees can continue to be produced.

swampwhiteoak · « **Reply #16 on:** June 09, 2002, 08:15:01 pm »

I forgot about that Jeff. The native pollinator is unknown, wonder what it is/was?

woodman · « **Reply #17 on:** June 09, 2002, 08:28:01 pm »

I know where there is at leat 2 of them here in Mass. so big it takes 2 people to give them a hug.

Corley5 · « **Reply #18 on:** June 09, 2002, 09:13:53 pm »

Do hummingbirds like the flowers? They'd be a pollinator if they do. But will they fly higher than bees?

L. Wakefield · « **Reply #19 on:** June 10, 2002, 06:50:22 pm »

I think henybees are the natural pollinator. I know tulip poplar honey is one of the types, and that tree is listed as bee fodder. lw

swampwhiteoak · « **Reply #20 on:** June 11, 2002, 02:27:07 pm »

Honeybees are a pollinator, but they are european imports. To my knowledge the native pollinator is unknown.

bjorn · « **Reply #21 on:** June 13, 2002, 07:28:20 pm »

Don,
Thanks for the info. I have also been out of the loop for a while. Busy with "real job" and milling when I can. I got the info I need on Tulop Poplar span tables from a friend. ANd yes, this is an Ag use building, thats what my permit says, and that's all it will be! Amazing how difficult it is to use non-graded lumber without jumping through hoops like this! Even if the quality is better than any of the crap you have to pay good money for.

Don P · « **Reply #22 on:** June 28, 2002, 02:13:47 pm »

I've been typing this up while out on site-offline...I see bjorn already found it but figured it might be worthwhile info for someone in the future. The book lists spans based on Fb and E and then goes on to give those values for quite a few species...a real good table to get hold of for those who might need something other than run of the (Canadian

) mill info.

These are the design values for joists and rafters from the "92 CABO codebook NC Edition.

Yellow-Poplar (surfaced dry or surfaced green)

Select Structural 2x4 Fb 1700 Modulus of elasticity 1,500,000
No 1 1450 1,500,000
No 2 1200 1.3M
No 3 675 1.2M
Stud 675 1.2

Construction 875 1.2
Standard 500 1.2
Utility 225 1.2

Sel Str 2x5&wider 1500 1.5
No1&appearance 1250 1.5
No 2 1050 1.3
No3 600 1.2
Stud 600 1.2

Allowable spans for floor joists...here are some examples this is from the table for 40 lb live load/10 lb dead load, deflection 1/360 span
2x6..E=1.3...16" on center...9'1" Fb=1090
24" 7'11" Fb=1250
E=1.4 16" 9'4" Fb=1150
24" 8'2" Fb=1310
E=1.5 16" 9'6" Fb=1200
24" 8'4" Fb=1380

2x8..E=1.3...16" 12'0" Fb=1090
24" 10'6" 1250
E=1.4 16" 12'3" 1150
24" 10'9" 1310
E=1.5 16" 12'7" 1200
24" 11'0" 1380

2x10..E=1.3...16" 15'3" 1090
24" 13'4" 1250
E=1.4 16" 15'8" 1150
24" 13'8" 1310
E=1.5 16" 16'0" 1200
24" 14'0" 1380

2x12..E=1.3...16" 18'7" 1090
24" 16'3" 1250
E=1.4 16" 19'1" 1150
24" 16'8" 1310
E=1.5 16" 19'6" 1200
24" 17'0" 1380

Rafters, allowable span for low or high slope 15lb dead, 30 lbs per square foot live load supporting gypsum ceiling deflection limited to 1/240 span (sorry but the only other choice was supporting plaster) Notice extreme fiber stress in bending rather than stiffness is the main factor in these tables
2x6...Fb=1000...16" 9'2" E=.67
24" 7'6" .54
Fb=1200...16" 10'0" .88
24" 8'2" .72
Fb=1400 16" 10'10" 1.10
24" 8'10" .90

2x8 Fb=1000 16" 12'1" .67
24" 9'10" .54
Fb=1200 16" 13'3" .88
24" 10'10" .72
Fb=1400 16" 14'4" 1.10
24" 11'8" .90

2x10 Fb=1000 16" 15'5" .67
24" 12'7" .54
Fb=1200 16" 16'11" .88
24" 13'9" .72
Fb=1400 16" 18'3" 1.10
24" 14'11" .90

2x12 Fb=1000 16" 18'9" .67
24" 15'4" .54
Fb=1200 16" 20'6" .88
24" 16'9" .72
Fb=1400 16" 22'2" 1.10
24" 18'1" .90

bjorn · « **Reply #23 on:** July 01, 2002, 07:26:15 pm »

Don,

That's all very helpful information. I appreciate the effort. This information does not seem to be readily available on the internet.

Bjorn

Jeff · « **Reply #24 on:** July 02, 2002, 12:50:46 pm »

It is now.

Sawyerfortyish · « **Reply #25 on:** July 28, 2002, 06:05:09 pm »

Better late than never I guess. ::)Im in north jersey and we got lots of big poplar I cut one a year ago two ledges farther than I could get the skidder to dropped it towards the skidder no problem at 96' it was still 14" on the little end and I had 75' of cable. It was all the old 230 timberjack wanted to do to move it with the winch

had to cut it in 3 sections to get it out. I sawed another on the mill that made the rear wheels on my payloader come off the ground ???an 8' log I got almost 700' of lumber out of! :)The poplar here grows big and tall

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Author Topic: Solved: Tulip Poplar (Read 2328 times)