Author Topic: Wht do you guys use for stickers? (Read 3779 times)

Doc · « **on:** March 30, 2005, 03:49:10 pm »

I am very new to this and am wondering if you guys use cutoffs from the stuff you are milling for stickers or do you use something in particular (ie., oak, maple, poplar....)?

I understand that they need to be 3/4" thick, and I am assuming about that or an inch wide. What wood works best without leaving stains or causing problems? Does stickering out to the last couple of inches of the stack help control checking or is this going to happen anyway?

Doc

Frank_Pender · « **Reply #1 on:** March 30, 2005, 04:07:28 pm »

I use 1" x 1" Douglas Fir stickers. As to your last question, yes, as near the end as possible. I would also suggest you use an end sealer. I use to use Anchor Seal. I now use ACI end sealer as it is basically the same and the cost is less.

Doc · « **Reply #2 on:** March 30, 2005, 04:14:44 pm »

Where can I get the ACI stuff?

I am about to be going up with a friend to clear some trees from a homesite of his uncles. We are hauling the logs back to his place for storage till I get a mill (a few months down the road), and I am wanting to keep them in as decent a shape as possible till I can get to them.

Doc

Larry · « **Reply #3 on:** March 30, 2005, 05:20:24 pm »

For air drying I use 1" cottonwood. For kiln drying I like 3/4" thick oak sticks that have been through the planer...so I can get more layers in the kiln. For white woods clean sticks with a dado down the center to hopefully eliminate stick stain.

In any case they are all dry.

Doc · « **Reply #4 on:** March 30, 2005, 05:34:36 pm »

So I am going to assume again here. I am planning on building a solar kiln. I am gonna need stickers obviously. Can I cut stickers out of scraps of oak from the mill and dry them along with the load in the kiln, and reuse them or am I asking for trouble (stain)? Should I cut the stock for stickers and dry them first, and plane them down?

I may be making this harder than it really is, but it kinda seems like....which came first? the chicken or the egg?

Doc

Daren · « **Reply #5 on:** March 30, 2005, 06:30:23 pm »

I have given up wood stickers all together. I used to get all my stickers from a local cabinet shops dumpster. They threw all the scrap in and and I would pick out a 1/2 a truckload of oak,cherry, hickory once a week. It was all 3/4" or 1" square kiln dried they had as cut off. I couldn't get the stickers not to pull moisture and mold and stain (oak did it every time). Now I use heavy wall cpvc pipe, I buy it in ten foot sticks. I just bought 500' ft from Grainger online, delivered to the door it was around $100. Cheap when you figure all the time I spent chasing or making sticker before. Since it is round there is not much sticker-wood contact which stopped stain. I don't stack real high (5' max) but I have had some pretty heavy loads on and they took it. cvpv is heat rated, so it should work in a kiln (I mostly air dry) It will last forever. One draw back for most would be the fact if the stack is not level lenghtwise all the boards will roll right off. I stack all my wood on a level slab. And if you have wood that likes to move sideways when it dries, there is not much friction to keep it from squirting right out the side of the stack. I mostly dry wide stuff, so keeping it flat is my concern, no problems there. I am kinda new to this, and I don't know all the tricks, but I got sick of chasing wood stickers, then having them ruin a nice stack of wide lumber.

Furby · « **Reply #6 on:** March 30, 2005, 08:28:36 pm »

Hmmmm............
Interesting idea, I'm now wondering about spliting the pipes in half.
Might try a layer or two in the next stack just to see how it works.

Brian_P · « **Reply #7 on:** March 30, 2005, 10:16:33 pm »

I like to use eastern red cedar for stickers. It is dry, open pored and relatively light. The light helps after the thousandth board foot on a long day. Stain seems to be minimal even used green because they start out at a low mc, about 30% or less as I recall, and dry quicker than any of the hardwoods. The only drawback is if you get a bad knot they break there. I cut them 3/4 by 1 1/4 so my fingers can tell which way is right without looking. Doug fir, as mentioned, has alot of the same properties if you can get it cheap.

Chet · « **Reply #8 on:** March 30, 2005, 10:20:08 pm »

I would go broke using PVC pipe.

I use basswood for my stickers, I cut them 1"x1". Last year I cut up at least a half dozen full trees into stickers, and it looks like I'll need more. $:-\$

Doc,
You definitely want to use dry stickers on your wood in a solar kiln.

Ianab · « **Reply #9 on:** March 31, 2005, 01:11:15 am »

I make up stickers as I'm sawing, instead of taking off a thick slab to remove taper I can saw some stickers. I just use them rough sawn, so long as they are cut accurate. Any miss-cuts go in the kindling pile

They aren't full length usually, but so long as I can get one or 2 stickers from the cut. Likewise if I'm cutting around a defect in the log, make some stickers. When I first started I had to make stickers from the logs I was cutting. Luckily with cypress that works OK. Pine.. not so good.
Now I've got a good stash of stickers, so I just cut a few each log to replace the lost, broken, mouldy ones.

If you've got some low grade logs just cut em up into 1x1s, stack em up to air dry for a month ( or chuck them in the solar kiln ) and you should be good to go. For most applications air dried stickers should be OK. Green stickers is asking for trouble unless you have real easy to dry cedar / cypress etc.

FeltzE · « **Reply #10 on:** March 31, 2005, 07:00:01 am »

Want to reduce sticker stain, DRY DRY DRY your stickers! 1 1/4 x 3/4 is what I use what ever spicies has made the trim pile. Dried and planed to uniform thickness.

Minimize the width of your stacks. Especially if you are in a location that dosn't get a good consistant breeze. A fellow I know had a few thousand feet of fresh cut SYP neatly stacked along athe edge of a 1/4 mile long field where there was no obstruction to the air flow. IT was drying beautifully. I am surrounded by trees and have to watch the SYP especially in the warmer weather to keep it from getting alot of blue stain and mold. AIR FLOW AIR FLOW AIR FLOW....

Put it straight in the nyle. and no problem...

Eric

Daren · « **Reply #11 on:** March 31, 2005, 11:07:56 am »

Chet you don't throw em' out after every use

, I was going broke cutting stickers just right and not sawing wood. The pipe comes exactly the same diam. so any one you grab is gonna give you a flat stack. Like I said figuring labor and messing around with kiln dried stickers that sucked water out of the wet pile before I even got it stacked, then staining the lumber, I think I am money ahead if I spend 2 grand on pipe that I will have for 20 years.

Doc · « **Reply #12 on:** March 31, 2005, 11:49:17 am »

I might be able to run out some cedar. I love cedar....smells good. I have no basswood around here that I am aware of, and I have never seen a cottonwood either. I do have poplar oak and pine. I hate to waste oak for stickers unless it is cutoffs, I don't know if poplar would be worth a pitoot for stickers or not (?), and pine is messy to start with. Even if it doesn't stain the wood I am drying I don't want that sappy mess all over everything if it is not more pine.

The pvc pipe idea sounds workable....expensive but workable. I wonder how that would work out cut in half lengthwise. It woudl minimize contact even more, and provide more airflow through the stack (minimal but more), but if I set the pitch in pine using it I might be in trouble. I woudl hate ti find the upper temp limit in a load, and make a mess.

I do have a friend who owns a plastics company locally. I wonder if acrylic sticks would work or even polycarbonate sticks. he has cutoofs from big sheets constantly.

Doc

Ianab · « **Reply #13 on:** March 31, 2005, 06:23:07 pm »

Hi Doc

The cottonwood is a type of poplar (there are several).
Any of the poplar species should be OK for making stickers and I think it dries fairly fast.

And I agree about the messy pine

Cheers

Ian

old3dogg · « **Reply #14 on:** March 31, 2005, 06:40:53 pm »

I love the PVC idea. Smart thinking. Yea! Split them in half on a little band saw to get rid of the stack wanting to roll away. That is a really cool idea!

Daren · « **Reply #15 on:** March 31, 2005, 07:20:38 pm »

Splitting would give a little more friction to stop side movement, and the rolling if its not level. An arch is a very strong shape, it should hold almost as much weight as the whole pipe. If it would work, that is 1/2 as many feet of pipe to buy also. I though I was so smart with the pipe idea, you guys made my setup even better.

Furby · « **Reply #16 on:** March 31, 2005, 08:52:23 pm »

Only thing would be the pipes flatting out, wether they are round or halves, they WILL flatten with too much weight. I sure would not stack one lift on top of another.

Daren, how tall of piles do make?

Daren · « **Reply #17 on:** March 31, 2005, 09:22:42 pm »

My situation may be different from others, I spread out instead of up. I only stack 5' high. Schedule 80 cpvc is heavy duty, I just stickered 18" wide 8/4 soakin' wet sweet gum today 5' high. They were 8' long, I don't know without checking the "lumber weight calculator" what they weighed, but it was plenty. The bottom pipes had to have a jag on them, but they are solid. Again, I air dry, in a kiln they are going to get softer and may smash.

Doc · « **Reply #18 on:** April 01, 2005, 11:49:31 am »

Quote from: Daren on March 31, 2005, 09:22:42 pm

My situation may be different from others, I spread out instead of up. I only stack 5' high. Schedule 80 cpvc is heavy duty, I just stickered 18" wide 8/4 soakin' wet sweet gum today 5' high. They were 8' long, I don't know without checking the "lumber weight calculator" what they weighed, but it was plenty. The bottom pipes had to have a jag on them, but they are solid. Again, I air dry, in a kiln they are going to get softer and may smash.

What temp rating is sched 80? Thinking that may not be good if I am using them setting pitch in pine, and I don't want to have to restack just to set pitch (this from reading).

They woudl certainly be usable for at least airdrying, and maybe a load of something that won't be run crazy high hot. Still a very good idea either full pipe, or cut in half. I am glad I read all these threads.

Doc

Daren · « **Reply #19 on:** April 01, 2005, 02:48:52 pm »

CPVC, with a design stress of 2,000 psi and maximum service temperature of 210 degrees F has, over a period of about 25 years, proven to be an excellent material for hot corrosive liquids, hot and cold water distribution and similar applications above the temperature range of PVC.

I didn't type that above I just copy and pasted from a pipe companies site. The pipe I use says "280 psi @ 200 deg. f." or something like that I don't remember exactly (I have just cleaned that writing off with primer for 15 years as a plumber/pipefitter) But it will take alot of abuse, you can drive a truck over it. That's more that I can say for my coffee thermos, I found out the hard way one morning.

Furby · « **Reply #20 on:** April 01, 2005, 03:01:22 pm »

Not going to argue on strength, as I have used it for stuff I never thought it would hold up too.
However, I belive the PSI rating is for pressure inside the pipe, not outside pressure.

FeltzE · « **Reply #21 on:** April 01, 2005, 04:08:04 pm »

I've been trying to keep quiet but what the heck...

With all the trim around a sawmill operation I don't understand why anyone would buy pipe or commercial sticks .... unless there is exceptionallly large quantities involved or the quality of the lumber is adequate and required for the "breeze dry" sticks. But then of course you need to have adequate airflow through your stacked lumber to even make a difference...

That is where I'd start, improve airflow, use dry sticks.

Eric

Daren · « **Reply #22 on:** April 01, 2005, 05:03:05 pm »

I'll be honest another reason I use pipe it is a direct 100% tax write off as material. I have a plumbing shop, the sawmill is a part-time venture. I was losing money, i.e. labor messing with wood stickers. The pipe cuts to length in 1 second with a pair of ratchet cutter I keep in my pocket.

Quote from: Furby on April 01, 2005, 03:01:22 pm

Not going to argue on strength, as I have used it for stuff I never thought it would hold up too.
However, I belive the PSI rating is for pressure inside the pipe, not outside pressure.

Your right, I just copied that info, I'm not trying to convince anyone to do anything different. The question was "wht do you guys use for stickers?" That is what I use.

Furby · « **Reply #23 on:** April 01, 2005, 08:55:58 pm »

Hey I like the concept myself, might change my mind after trying it though.
I do plan to give it a try on a small scale.
As far as mill scraps are concerned, what are they

I sure don't have enough and I cut whole logs for stickers and am still running out. I may get a couple per log by edging, but find I'd rather pull that wider board out then get one more sticker.

DanG · « **Reply #24 on:** April 01, 2005, 09:40:16 pm »

Since my mill takes one board at a time, I just cut a 1x1 whenever I can't get anything else out of what is left. I never lack for sticker material. I tend to go with Don Lewis' explanation of the mc of your stickers. In another thread, he recommended NOT kiln drying them. He said the really dry stickers would wick moisture from the lumber, causing checking under the stick. Make's sense to me.

I try to use stickers from the same species as the lumber. I have no basis for this policy, but it makes sense to me and that's what I do.

All that being said, I don't have a kiln, and I mostly dry pine, since that's mostly what I got. I got all sorts of drying problems, but sticker stain ain't one of them.

Kirk_Allen · « **Reply #25 on:** April 02, 2005, 12:39:28 am »

I use to pick up a 4x8 sheet of MD particle board. Then I would rip it 3 times making 4 eight foot sections, then cross cut 1" at a time. Last time I did this it came out to about 7 cents a sticker. No sticker stain but it was to time concuming.

Now I cut my stickers from the species I am sawing. Since I have so much free spruce I know I wont need it all for my building so I plan on cutting some NICE clean stickers and drying them for future use on everything.

UNCLEBUCK · « **Reply #26 on:** April 03, 2005, 01:41:08 am »

I use pvc pipe for steam boxes for bending wood and see no defects in the pvc but under a heavy stack of lumber I dont know how that would turn out .

Corley5 · « **Reply #27 on:** April 03, 2005, 01:20:04 pm »

We use edgings until we run out

I sawed several beech logs into 1X1s for stickers last year. Sawed the logs into whatever boards, stacked them back on the carriage, ripped 'em and cut them to length with the chainsaw.

stumpy · « **Reply #28 on:** April 06, 2005, 05:45:49 pm »

I was at the local Hardwood mill yesterday, and the guy mentioned he had some used stickers to get rid of. He stacks 6' wide and when the stickers break at the ends, he can't use them. I stack 4' wide so they are perfect for me. I got a bundle about 3' diameter for $25. I'm guessing there are about 250 in it.

southview · « **Reply #29 on:** April 18, 2005, 08:32:23 am »

I have gotten a few pallets of southern yellow pine 2x6 44" long from a Chrysler warehouse that was remodeling I was thinking about cutting these into stickers. Does anyone see a problem using these with maple, oak and walnut?

Chet · « **Reply #30 on:** April 18, 2005, 08:51:01 pm »

I myself have not had a problem with pine stickers used with hardwoods.

GF · « **Reply #31 on:** April 19, 2005, 03:56:10 pm »

I use cottonwood 3/4 x 1 1/4, pretty much give those away and have some for myself. On my better quality lumber I used KD red oak stickers. I also use red oak in the kiln.

maple flats · « **Reply #32 on:** April 20, 2005, 09:59:43 pm »

Anyone use hemlock stickers for hardwood, cherry for example. I have some fresh sawn cherry stickerd with the same, when I redo the stack where it will set for the next 2 years should I use hemlock that are 6 months air dried?

Dan_Shade · « **Reply #33 on:** April 21, 2005, 09:31:53 am »

have any of you guys had problems with tannin stains from using oak stickers?

so far, i've only used pine and poplar for stickers. it's depressing how many stickers it takes for a pile of wood, but then again, it nets a big pile of wood!!!

rvrdivr · « **Reply #34 on:** May 01, 2005, 07:10:08 pm »

For stickers, I have been using sand pine that came down in the many hurricanes we have had here in Florida last year. It was not a bit sappy, like the long leaf can be, and it dries fast. Almost every log I cut has a defect like a crook or bend or something that leaves a three or four foot peice. I saved these until I have a dozen or so and spend the day cutting 1x1 stickers. I have used these for sticking maple, pine, pecan, oak, cedar, and bay and have not seen any stain problems so far. I have not tried them in a kiln.

I tried stacking a small load of cedar with pvc pipe once. With it only four foot high and two foot wide, it was very unstable. One bump and the pile wood go for a ride. Also if you cut a pipe in halve you are taking away it's stability and it will flatten easier. Watch your weight load!

Doc, always sticker to the edge of your stack if not past it. This will help control warping rather than checking. A good layer of end sealent on your logs ASAP will help minamize checking. I've been using parafin wax on all but the sappy long leaf pine (which I use nothing) and have had good results.

As FeltzE said, theres plenty of trim around to cut up too.

Have fun!

woodmills1 · « **Reply #35 on:** May 02, 2005, 07:02:29 am »

I gave up on pine stickers as they usually break if they arent from clear wood. I use hemlock for a majority of my stickers, using them right off the mill the first time them planing them for second use. Hemlock is white so doesn't cause much stain and it is a very tough wood so they last. Problem is splinters, they hurt more than others and seem to cause infections. By the way I make mine 1 1/2 by 1 then plane them to 3/4

Al_Smith · « **Reply #36 on:** May 02, 2005, 09:37:26 pm »

When I get ready to saw/stack,I just go to one of the local lumber yards and get spacers,used to stack plywood etc[dunnage] for free.It' dry pine,usually 11/2 by 3"by 4 ft.I then rip them with my 12" tablesaw to 3/4" by 3/4".I can make several hundred in short order and they work fine.

Ironwood · « **Reply #37 on:** May 25, 2005, 12:49:23 am »

Good thread with some great ideas. I use anything I can get my hands on as long it is dry and cheap. It does take a lot of time even with a feeder on my tablesaw. I go through alot of stickers as I squirrel tons of wood away annually. I may try the PVC idea. Thanks REID

gary · « **Reply #38 on:** May 25, 2005, 06:00:42 am »

I have some oak,cherry and poplar that has been cut for about a year. Would I be able to use the poplar
for stickers now? I only want to use them temporally . Until I find a house or build being toren down where I can scrounge some free lumber for stickers.
Thanks
gary

Ironwood · « **Reply #39 on:** May 26, 2005, 09:38:06 pm »

Gary,

Should work fine. I keep all my stickers dry in covered/ roofed 5' square recycled shipping crates. With one end open I just forklift them over to the work area and grab them as I need them, they stay dry even if I am milling in the rain, right up until I pull'em and lay'em. Reid

gary · « **Reply #40 on:** May 27, 2005, 03:25:32 pm »

Reid
What I have are logs these have not been milled yet. These logs have been cut for about a year. I want to use the poplar for stickers only temporally. I am waiting to get some lumber from a house that is going to be torn down. This should happen in the next two months.

Randy · « **Reply #41 on:** May 27, 2005, 07:02:57 pm »

Gary
What I would do being you don't have dry stickers and want to use the poplar is--------I would cut my stickers first then stack them very open------------meaning, start the stack a foot or 2 off the dirt if possible then several inches apart, then turn the next layer across these still leaving several inches between each sticker from side to side, keep building layers, put a little weight and a waterproof top on them and let them dry for as many days as possible before you use them, if you have electricity, probably using a fan to force some air through the stack will help. If you saw your boards the same day leave them stacked on top of each other for 2 or 3 days then air stack them using the stickers-------in my opinion this way would be better than sticker stacking them the time they are cut. What I do is grab a few air dried boards that I sawed a few months ago usually 12 ft then saw then into 1" strips-----------I stack all these strips together with level ends---------I then wrap 3 bungee cords around this stack them measure 4ft(the length I use)-------------I then use the chainsaw to cut through the stack-----------the bungee cord is spaced so when I saw through the stack--------each 4ft section is held together-----------Then I can pick up the whole bundle at the time---------Works for me. Keep in mind I am mainly cutting pine framing material so I don't plane my stickers, but I am VERY careful about looking for stickers that are not cut very close to what they should be. If I was cutting High Grade Boards------if I didn't have any-----I would go buy some dried, Planed boards to cut my stickers out of. Good Luck!! Randy

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Author Topic: Wht do you guys use for stickers? (Read 3779 times)

Kirk_Allen