Grade the log - sweep, crook, shell, rot, etc.

[Bibbyman]

Here  is one (in middle) of many cherry logs we sawed this morning.  8' long 12" on the little end, upper cut, no defects other than at least 5" of sweep.

For a straight 12"x8' log - Int scale would be 40bf, Doyle 32.

How mant board feet would you deduct for sweep?

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Bein as how I don't do things in a conventional manner, I would BUY 20 bd/ft doyle. Then, I would buck it right at the top of the white fungus line, and saw both pieces, and sell every board as shorts. No problem selling shorts. I believe you can cut the curved grain just about out at that point.

  We don't always look at high production when we saw. It's the $$$ that add up.

[Ron Wenrich]

Hard to tell without being able to measure.  But, if the white fungus line is at 6', then that's where the straight log stops.  24 ft Doyle, 32 ft Int.  If its at 7' then volume is 28 ft Doyle, 38 ft Int.

The next factor is the sapwood.  Is it solid?  If not, then scale inside the sapwood.  I would also do that if it were stained and a higher grade of log.

From a grade standpoint, it is a #3.  The diameter is too small for anything better at most mills.  If you want to make an exception due to it being cherry, then I'd still make it a #3 due to the sweep.

[Bibbyman]

The sweep in the middle log is pretty constant.  Cutting it back to 6' wouldn't help much.  (Unless you're talking about cutting it back to 6' in length for scale reduction.)  The sap was solid.  Had to thick slab just a little to get moldy bark stain off'n it.

It sawed out 3 6/4x6"x8'  1 6/4x 4"x8' and 1 6/4x6"x6' for for about 26 bf.

[Tom]

Well, Shucks, Bibbyman.  I figgered you could get at least 150 BF out-a that sucker, with your Wood Mizer.

[KILROY]

  Bibbyman, 
     If you were purchasing that log, drop it down one grade for the sweep.
If the log has more than 3 inches of sweep, you will lose one third  of your  lumber.  I can not remember what book the yield recovery with different sweeps in logs was in. ( old timers) You will not be able to get an FAS board from that log because of the length and sweep.  So the price of the log should be less.  20 bdft would be about right for the scale of that log.

[Bibbyman]

You're right about the grade.  Too bad the little log has so much sweep as there wasn't any other defect in it.  There would have been a couple of 3-4 FAS boards and a couple 1C.



Here's another one.  The log on the left is about 12" on the little end - 8' long.  Straight as a string - no defects - other than had been standing dead.  The sap wood was too far gone...

The one to the right of it has a bad case of crook (not to be confused with sweep) on both ends.   It was also about 12" on the little end.  The crooks were about 1' to 18" in from the ends.  The log had a little extra length.  Lots of small knots.

[Daren]

I am new to sawing, and the sweep gets me everytime. I have been in construction my whole life. And have been a master plumber for 20 years, I work without a pocket level, my eye for level and plumb is dead on. I can't count the logs that looked straight laying on the ground, but as soon as I start cutting they are crooked as a dogs hind leg. I am getting better, slowly. Fortunatly it has not cost me too much. I get most of my logs from 3 guys who work with me. I only pay after I cut, they only want my bft price after I tally. If I was paying on the truck I would be broke by now (more broke I should say).

[KILROY]

  Bibbyman,
  The log on the right should be a #3 because of the crooks and knots. At best you will get 3 or 4  6 inch FAS boards depending where the knots are positioned. The rest of the boards will barely be over 6 feet long.  The boards that are 8 feet will have the heart in them. You will need to trim them back to keep your grade up.
  The log on the left is not that bad. You will get 50% FAS boards from it. It probably has 3 clear faces. Standing dead doesn't seem to hurt some species very much. Walnut is one that can look terrible on the outside yet have excellent lumber on the inside. From the picture it looks like there is some shake in the log. If it is shake, it is close enough to the heart that you will still get some good boards. The log could be #2 or #3. you would need to roll it over to inspect it better.  You will make some money from this log. Cut the good boards off and cut the heart for turning squares.

[Bibbyman]

Yep,  Kilroy, the standing dead log did make a few FAS boards - under the dead sap.  All of it had to go.  I would have downsized it to a 10" dia. on scale. (There was no shake - I see what you thought was shake and think it was just a smudge of dirt.)

The log to the right was just junk.  Get it on, cut it up the best you can and get it off.

BTW,  we're just custom sawing these logs for a log broker.  So we get paid the same.  Just it's a lot easer to get the BF tally up with good logs.

[KILROY]

 Bibbyman,
  I do not think he had very much money in those logs. Like you said put it on, cut it up, and get it off. You can spend a lot time flipping those poor logs trying to find one more grade board. Some times it is not in there, so whack it up.
  Two years ago I cut up over 40 thousand bdft of grade cherry in a little over two months. I got to look at a lot of cherry logs and try to get the most value out of them.

[hillbilly]

            Bibby we dont get to cut much cherry here but I have my Ideas  what I wuold of done ifn they were oak the ones on the bottom pic I would have scaled inside the sape ring also and cut a tie from it if possible since if it were oak them little devilish beetles would have done away w/ having good grade in it . The other one w/the crookes in the end yo are certinly right about it cut what you can and move on me thinks it would have made acouple of 1/2x51/2sx8 plus a 7x7 w/alittle bark on the ends where the crook is the 7x7s are turned into 4 3.5x3.5s x8 and sold for 4x4 scale same as the 1/2 x51/2 are sold for 2x6 scale when cutting lower grade oak its always good to cut less and get payed for more
 HILLBILLY

[Bibbyman]

Here is a double barreled log.  Cherry again.  About 22” on the stump end,  8’ long butt cut.  But has fork top.  One side is 14” the other 12”.  There is about 18” between the hearts.

How would you scale this log to allow for the loss in the fork?

[Kirk_Allen]

I would flat saw it so that the crotch wood is saved

Crotch wood shorts bring $5-7 bf kiln dried up near the city!

[Engineer]

A little bit of creative chainsaw work can often save a lot of logs. 

I cut a 14' pine log yesterday, about 16" dia at the small end, that had a wicked crook about 3' from one end.  Well, I cut that end off, full of knots and ugly, even though I needed a 6x8x14 out of it.  The ugly went into the future firewood pile, and the 11' remaining would up with some of the nicest 4/4 boards I had cut in months.  Small knots, not more than a dime in size, maybe two or three per board.  If I had cut the log with the crook in it, I would have gotten some pretty strange looking lumber, a cant with a lot of wane on it, and a lot of waste.

I have a few other oddballs, some standing dead and a bunch of silver maple logs, that really have issues with potential yield.  Make the best of them, I guess.  I'm glad I burn wood, so I don't mind a thick slab if I can improve the quality.

[Ron Wenrich]

From a volume perspective, there is no loss.  If the crotch had a lot of bark in it, then you would box the amount of defect and deduct the footage.  A 14 x 12 measurement would average out to 13".

From a grade standpoint, I might drop a grade if I couldn't sell a select lumber grade.  Otherwise, I might leave the grade but stiffen the footage a tad.

[Larry]

Think I would fire the guy doing the bucking...guess an alternative would be to do a little training.  Might make both the log broker and the mill a little money?

Can’t believe a couple of those logs are making money for anybody.

[Bibbyman]

So,  Ron, you're saying,  since the fork is solid,  you'd average the diameter of both forks and use that to work out the scale in board feet.

The average of 12 and 14 is 13,  so ..

Internation scale for this 8' log would be 50 bf,

If you're using Doyle,  it would be 41 bf.

The rest of the log is solid and sound with no crook, sweep, etc. so no other deductions are made.

The logger may have bucked it back about 6' and then split and trimmed the two second cuts at the crotch.

A 6' log about 18" dia log would scale about a 100 bf. (6' logs are not listed in the table.)

[RMay]

I would call it a six ft. log Doyle 74 bf.  and call it a grade two log

[Minnesota_boy]

I'd sort of agree with Kirk, 'cept I'd flat saw it to get the grain in the crotch and make end tables from it.  It would make some pretty tables and likely worth a lot more than the lumber you could salvage from it.