Author Topic: Building a tracked skidder (Read 9072 times)

sprucebunny · « **on:** March 23, 2005, 10:01:54 pm »

OK ..... I admit it ...... I'm a little obsessed with tracked vehicles

The biggest problem I have with my tracked ATV is that the winch has no height to lift a log I want to drag out . The other problem is not enough cable.
I've got this 1974 Thiokol Imp. It came with an A-frame and tons of hydraulics.

And I've bought a MM hydraulic winch. Plan on mounting both the winch and the A-frame on top of two 2x2x3/16" pieces of square tubing to tie the forces together and distribute them to the frame.

You can see the fairlead in a proposed position.

I made a mock up to explore the mechanics and dimensions of the "skidder-plate" I want to build.
I had hoped that the cylinder would pivot the whole plate to the ground to act as stabilizers but it needs extendable legs. I figure on a square tube inside another one and pins in holes.
First ...the cylinder in place

Next ....side view of mock up showing legs

And this is a rear view

The pieces of wood DO NOT represent pieces of metal but define the space.
There would be slots cut at the top of the plate to recieve choker chains then 3-4 logs could be lifted and skidded out.
I'm only dealing with spruce/balsam up to 15" so the logs don't weigh alot. The land is very soft and already bears huge scars from wheeled skidders.
I plan on having a lower fairlead , also and realize that the A-frame needs some diagonal bracing

I'm looking for suggestions. .... What would you do different ?

Mike_P. · « **Reply #1 on:** March 24, 2005, 07:50:59 am »

Wow, Joan. I am impressed. You have put a lot of planning into this. It appears to be an ingenious idea.

My only concerns would be the need for additional weight on the front of the machine to counteract your load, and whether the bogies, sprockets are stout enough to handle the work on a sustained basis. Will the steering mechanism hold up under load? Having said that, I am demonstrating my ignorance since I am not familiar with the Thiokol.

BTW, there is nothing wrong with an obsession with tracked vehicles. At least that is what I keep telling my kids.

Mike

moosehunter · « **Reply #2 on:** March 24, 2005, 07:54:43 am »

SB,
I share your obssesion for tracked vehicles. I run a Bombardier BR160 to groom the local snowmobile trails.
That looks like it would make a good light duty skidder. What is the drive system on that machine. One thing to consider if you have hills to climb while skidding is a mechanical drive system (non-hydrostatic) will not turn onder load without some outside forces. look at the equipment a local snowmobile club has & see if they have "ram steer", you will see what I mean. No hills? don't worry about it!
Your idea seems sound. A hydralic winch may be kinda slow but should pull your house around if you need it to!
MH

Jeff · « **Reply #3 on:** March 24, 2005, 07:58:06 am »

Generally when you see a tracked vehicle skidding, its attached to an arch and the winch cable passes through it for the winching and lifting.

WH_Conley · « **Reply #4 on:** March 24, 2005, 08:10:22 am »

Joan, from the looks of things you probably already know it but just a reminder, when putting bracing in, keep it as close to a 45 degree angle as possible, can use lighter bracing for same effect, farther away from 45 beefier it has to be.

sprucebunny · « **Reply #5 on:** March 24, 2005, 08:46:17 am »

Thanks for your input.

It is mechanical drive but the hills are mild. The brake bands DO rob alot of power to make it turn. Hadn't worried about that much but most of my experience with these machines has been grooming alpine ski areas and those are hydrostatic drive and much more powerful machines. Also figured on being able to let the load out to make a turn , then reeling it in again.

I had thought of the fore and aft weight problem . But don't know how to figure the weights.

Jeff, do you have any pictures

That's a good idea. One reason I was hoping to skid with the cat is that backing up is not my specialty

and I'm not sure I could horse an arch around in rough, soft terrain.

I'm going to think about all of your comments today and maybe try some experiments

redpowerd · « **Reply #6 on:** March 24, 2005, 08:55:23 am »

you could allways winch the arch up onto that flatbed for backing up to a log. or backing anywheres, shouldnt be hard to ramp even a large arch up short planks with your winch. an arch with snowmobile skis might suffice. how does that thing like mud?
good luck and cute little machine, btw, where do them transmission lines run?

redpowerd · « **Reply #7 on:** March 24, 2005, 09:00:24 am »

ive also seen mini forklift mounts for fourwheelers, it attaches so that when you lift up, it distributes weight across all four wheels, keeping the font end down, might work for your app. if you want to pick the butt up. if interested i might be able to find a link, think i seen them in a farm mag.
i think your having too much fun logging anyways

good luck

Jeff · « **Reply #8 on:** March 24, 2005, 09:06:21 am »

Actually, backing up with a skid is usually not a consideration other then when using a forwarder, you just dont back up with a skid. You plan on your path before hand.

Joan, actually I have a lot of photos but they are of the variety I can't post because of copyright restrictions. They are in the book "catapillar 60"

Here is a link to the book on Amazon

redpowerd · « **Reply #9 on:** March 24, 2005, 09:27:35 am »

just drive up to the log, spin the cat around, and drop your arch over it.

i suppose it would be like a grapple with wheels. certianly would help keep the weight off the back.

sprucebunny · « **Reply #10 on:** March 24, 2005, 10:48:49 am »

Thanks

I hadn't planned on backing the logs up

but I also hadn't thought of using the hydraulics to lift the empty arch.... great idea !!! I was going to incorperate a trailer hitch and all I'd really need is a triangular gusset on the arch tongue to lift it ..... Got me thinkin' now

( Danger zone !! )

Thanks for the link , Jeff. It's on my wish list.

Jon, I still need the height to winch the logs out and after months of thinking, I can't figure out how to do it with the ATV. The powerlines are on the Me /NH border in Fryeburg looking East. There are lots around here and I couldn't say where they go... that one makes a 70* turn about 1/2 mile away. On my land further North there is not only powerlines but gas lines.... about 20 acres worth ....

I'm going to get the winch and A-frame mounted and ponder the log handling part

Thanks again for the light bulb

Murf · « **Reply #11 on:** March 24, 2005, 12:33:17 pm »

Joan, just a thought, but as an Engineer type I would think the easiest way all round would be to mount a goosneck hitch in the center of that deck and use that to haul a triangular skid, with the single point forward being the hitch.

You say the Thiokol has lots of hydraulics, then it would be easy to make a steering mechanism for the skid, this would help with both negotiating in close quarters and the reversing problem. It might even be easier than lifting it.

By skidding that way you also put the logs back away from the machine a safer distance, and can distribute any weight because the hitch would be forward of the last axle, not behind.

You could also then make some sort of drop down brake device to steady the Thiokol when pulling with the winch.

Besides, you can pull (or trailer) a LOT more weight than you can carry.

GregS · « **Reply #12 on:** March 24, 2005, 08:35:11 pm »

Murf,
I understand the amount of thought that goes into a design like this and trying to keep in within a limited budget makes it all the tougher. If your anything like me you lie awake at night thinking about it.

The pivot arm you have looks perfect but remember to make sure that the end of the cylinder travel needs to happen before the pivot arm starts to rotate under too far. If the cylinder rod is force by the rotation of the pivoting arm to bend it will...!

The idea you have to put square tubes with drilled holes for extendable stabilizers is a good one but I think purchasing trailer jacks with drop pins is well worth the money. I recently purchased 4 of them from Harbor freight for a sawmill project I am doing and they were $29.99/piece. They would give you the ability to have more adjustment and I find opening a box sometimes easier that fabrication

.

Good luck, and I hope you don't have to cut too many fresh welds.

Sprucegum · « **Reply #13 on:** March 24, 2005, 10:50:59 pm »

The drop-down legs are OK for vertical lift but if you put sideways stress on them when skidding a log they will likely buckle ,which was addressed in an earlier post about beefier legs. I am seconding the motion I guess

BTW I have 30 years experience welding and 5 minutes experience skidding logs so my suggestions may be 3% right 19 times out of 20

J_T · « **Reply #14 on:** March 25, 2005, 12:05:50 am »

Could you put a blade type device on the rear on a set of arms with a hyd. simler to a miniture three point hitch let it down to winch pick it up to travel ???It would act as a skid plate to keep logs from sliding under or into the tracks

UNCLEBUCK · « **Reply #15 on:** March 26, 2005, 01:28:44 am »

Hey sprucebunny that is a awesome machine you have ! I skid logs sometimes with my old farm pickup and nothing fancy but a homemade hitch about 4 feet from the ground off the back end and away I go , no winch,no nothing , just enough to keep the log bouncing off the ground once in awhile and I have pulled a 30 foot x 30 inch white oak but I do leave the butt end kind of pointed until I get close to where I drop then I square up and clean up the ends of the logs. Very cool machine , very cool !

Quebecnewf · « **Reply #16 on:** March 26, 2005, 07:50:43 am »

Check out his page it has some nice little video of a machine called the Forcat 2000

http://www.tdb.bc.ca/forcat2000.htm

Quebecnewf · « **Reply #17 on:** March 26, 2005, 07:57:52 am »

With that machine can you go in say the dead of winter and still haul out a decent amount of logs. Will it travel over soft snow and will it lay down a good path after a few trips or will it make the path gradually worse and worse.

I am looking at a machine called an F-4 Dion tracked with a trailer and log loader but I don't know if it will go in deep snow. I must do all my logging in the winter as the land is too soft during summer. My plan is to cut during the months of sept to nov then haul during dec and jan before th esnow gets too deep.We were thinking of running 2 machines 24 hours a day to keep the trail open until all the logs are hauled. Just in the planning stage yet.

sprucebunny · « **Reply #18 on:** March 26, 2005, 08:56:19 am »

UNCLEBUCK-- Thanks ... It is cute. I don't have anything big or heavey to haul with it. Mostly need it to get a bigger/higher winch out there to get the logs out to a skid trail.

Paul--- I've seen that Forcat website but can't get the videos to work . I have QuicktimePlayer.... don't know what the problem is.
I can't say how the F-4 Dion will go. I'm sure it has a bit more weight per square inch than this . Your plan sounds good and once the ground freezes you should be all set but you know how unpredictable the weather can be..... Once you are there, if you kept the snow packed and let it freeze overnight sometimes, I would think you would be able to operate until March if the cut logs aren't too buried.
You might want to have a roller or drag to smooth out your trail occaisionally. If I was going to make money, I would be very interested in the Forcat and F-4 .I'm going to try this in the summer on some very wet land and I'll let you know what happens

Fla._Deadheader · « **Reply #19 on:** March 26, 2005, 09:24:06 am »

You are quite the innovator, Joan.

Biggest problem I see is the "rocking chair" design you built into the machine. As someone pointed out, the bracing HAS to be ahead of the axle that will have ground contact. Old Winch trucks have the brace poles fastened ahead of the rear axle. Still, when dragging, the front will rear up. I think you will have the same problem, especially if you snag an old stump or rock while truckin. It will happen so fast, you could have trouble.

Carrying the end of the log closer to the ground, so you can not rear up very high, would be my choice, and a strap and snatch block to snake the log to the trail would be my way of doing the dragging.

Being that I never played with logs in the snow, on hills, I have no idea what I am talking about. Just trying to point out trouble spots in your design. Good luck. I like innovative folks.

UNCLEBUCK · « **Reply #20 on:** March 26, 2005, 03:39:25 pm »

Oh yeah I forgot that you are in rugged country s.b. , I can see where the winch would be a needed thing . Nothing funner than getting down deep in the woods and hookin on to a log and planning on what to make from it . Endless possibilities aint it , isnt it !

sprucebunny · « **Reply #21 on:** March 26, 2005, 05:55:16 pm »

FDH--- I had planned on having hooks or slots on the top edge of the "skidderplate" that the wooden mock up represents and a stub on top of that would enable it to be raised by the cylinder.Kind of like the thing that Bitternut has on his three pt hitch. (see Log Arch #3)
I do see that having too much weight behind the axle is asking for trouble.I had hoped that the plow blade and forward engine would be enough to conteract the weight of the hitch.

I wasn't very clear that this is for a Pre Commercial Thinning. Most of the logs will only be around 5" and would usually be left on the ground but I can use them to make corduroy and fences and a few should be big enough to use for a small log building.

Thanks for your observations, everyone.

Keep 'em comin'

Fla._Deadheader · « **Reply #22 on:** March 26, 2005, 06:50:01 pm »

Joan, I'm sure you have a better idea than I. Your postings are always well thought out. I admire that you have a firm grasp on how things are to be done in the timber. Just be careful. Power can getcha, real quick. Keep us updated.

maple flats · « **Reply #23 on:** March 26, 2005, 08:18:14 pm »

Try this idea. Use the winch with high mount to lift the log but have a second chain from log to do the pulling from a low pull point. This is how I pull rather large logs with my 20 horse 4 WD tractor. I have a 3 point log arch to lift the log but if it is heavy and I do not use a 2nd chain to pull from down low all I do is drive out from under the load and that is a wheelie the dangerous way. I built an extra heavy front end weight (for the tractor size) of about 300# but still need the low pull point. With it I can pull a tree length 24" soft maple and lift the lead end. I do need and have logging chains on the rears and conventional cleated chains on the fronts but this is the equipment I have and it works.

UNCLEBUCK · « **Reply #24 on:** March 26, 2005, 08:29:35 pm »

Sprucebunny there is no such thing as logs too small because I think you will find something to make out of 5 inch or 8 inch logs and ride in comfort to and from the woods in your very cool machine . Here is what small logs can make , anyone know what I am making here ? Yes thats right these are log dog houses . Doggy Castles ! Small logs make more money than big logs if you got ideas and I believe with all your ideas that you are sitting on a gold mine of wonderful little logs .

sprucebunny · « **Reply #25 on:** March 26, 2005, 08:45:54 pm »

Hey...that's neat, UNCLEBUCK

Did you hand peel them or do you have a power tool of some sort ?

I'm gonna make some of those. My favorite dog... not my own... is scared of stuff and always looking for things to hide in and under. He could have one of those indoors and the roof could be flat and a table !!!!

UNCLEBUCK · « **Reply #26 on:** March 26, 2005, 08:55:49 pm »

Yeah I just peel them by hand with a sharp old sye blade , I still dont know how to spell sye ,psye ? sigh ?

I can fill a pickup box with these and peel in the spring when things start melting. Just thought another idea wouldnt hurt and its a fun project , could even go 2 story with dog on 1st floor and cat on 2nd floor . If I had a machine like that I would be afraid to get a scratch on it .

UNCLEBUCK · « **Reply #27 on:** March 26, 2005, 09:03:49 pm »

I cant help but look at your cool machine and if I had small logs to haul maybe a removeable stake bed like a pickup wouldnt do the trick because smaller logs can be pivoted or tumbled on or slid on and 4 feet could hang off the back end once in awhile. Just a thought.

UNCLEBUCK · « **Reply #28 on:** April 04, 2005, 03:03:50 am »

sprucebunny how is your project coming along ? I am curious to see what you end up with on the back of your cool machine . I see the weather channel shows heavy rain and snow out your way but I suppose you can pull through anything with that . Probably got wipers and heated seat and steering wheel too ? Its 71 degrees in minnesota tomorrow "monday" .

sprucebunny · « **Reply #29 on:** April 04, 2005, 06:44:27 pm »

hey, UNCLEBUCK....yah...we had some rain and a little flooding...normal spring stuff. Ground is too soft to mess around in the woods right now ...probably can't work out there for a few weeks but there has been some progress with the cat.
It isn't all that shiny and wonderful being that it's 30 years old and it definately doesn't have heated seats or even a steering wheel.

It rides rough on packed trails and is noisy. At least it's finally running good : When I got it, it had the wrong spark plugs in it and the choke was bent inside and not working right.Purrs like a kitten now.

Here's the interior:

A very nice friend visited this weekend and we ( well... mostly he ) got a trailer hitch welded on and also some brackets to mount the winch over the trailer hitch. This picture shows the winch. The A frame is sitting on the rails and the whole winch, fairlead and the plate they are mounted on can be bolted in front of the frame where the hydraulic hose ends are laying. Still some drilling to be done to get that together.

Just had to see how it would do towing a trailer

Don't know how much of a load it will haul but the cat needs new drive sprockets and if it doesn't do well towing the loaded trailer because of lack of power I could get slightly smaller sprockets. If it doesn't do well because of weight, I have an off road trailer thats lots smaller and dumps.

rebocardo · « **Reply #30 on:** April 04, 2005, 08:46:09 pm »

How about a headache rack of 1 x 1.5 x 12 guage protecting the back of the cab and extending out (angled backwards in case you snag something) a few inches beyond the cab so a stray hook or broken cable does not come through the back of the cab windows, cab, or side windows and kills you?

How about a second attachment point for a hook on both sides of the vehicle towards the middle of the truck so you can double pull from the back with a snatch block and side or even front pull to get the vehicle out of a stuck situation?

UNCLEBUCK · « **Reply #31 on:** April 04, 2005, 10:39:20 pm »

sprucebunny youre coming along great there , looks like beautiful country out there , I wouldnt have the patience to get a winch on there like you did . Looks like a hoot to drive ,kind of like a dozer . Well thanks for the pics and dont hit a moose with that thing . Good Luck Pullin !

isawlogs · « **Reply #32 on:** April 05, 2005, 12:14:36 am »

I'm happy to see that it's working fine ...

Ironwood · « **Reply #33 on:** April 05, 2005, 08:58:56 pm »

For those obsessed with track vehicals, I have guy in Elizabeth Pa. with two 1960's Army track vehicals that were used as "platforms" for small artillery rockets. They have 4 clyinder Ford engines. They are geared a little high. They really go fast and the tracks are padded for road us but when he toke me for a ride my head was spinning with the possibilities. One has a full lenth roll cage and the other a smaller roll cage. As I recall he wanted $4,000 each. They were quite cool but didn't turn on a dime for woods work. Reid

sprucebunny · « **Reply #34 on:** June 20, 2005, 07:13:35 am »

Finally have the winch mounted and a workable mock-up of the skid-plate done. I'm going to get an arch to keep the far end of the logs off the ground. 4-5 10" spruce per load is all I'm hoping for and a few poles thrown on the back of the cat. I don't imagine the weight of the logs will exceed the cat's weight rating of about 1000# It won't be very hard to add some weight to the front blade if I need too.

In it's final ( metal

) form, I hope to have the plate and the weight a littler higher and also closer to the body.

There is no emergency brake on this thing and one of the main purposes of this plate is to anchor the cat when using the winch.

sprucebunny · « **Reply #35 on:** July 08, 2005, 10:41:05 pm »

I got a bunch of painted up parts now.

It's not quite as colorful as Jeff's drag saw.

Not-quite-USFS-green and industrial yellow .......

I have a little work to do to the frame of the cat to make it survive the extra forces . And then I'll be ready for the big test

Got to look around the neighborhood for a test log.

tnlogger · « **Reply #36 on:** July 09, 2005, 09:55:54 am »

looking good joan make a video when you get it running

sprucebunny · « **Reply #37 on:** July 09, 2005, 06:53:34 pm »

No video today, Gene

But I did get it together and have a little 'yank' at something

I really need to find a smaller log

This was closest. It's about 40" thick and 16' long ..... I dragged it a couple inches

My contraption seems like it will work. I've had fun and learned alot building it. I will post a pic later in the summer when I find the right size log

There must be a beat up truck in my yard that I could pick up one end of .......

isawlogs · « **Reply #38 on:** July 09, 2005, 07:05:32 pm »

Joan that is just amazing what you did , It looks really good , congratulation on a job very well done ...

I have logs here that would be the wright size for you to try this thing out ... If a little drive here would not bother you ..

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #39 on:** July 09, 2005, 07:08:24 pm »

Boys, that's quite a stick of wood sprucebunny. Was it left after the loggers pulled out of the property? Looks like an even bigger sucker in the back ground. Hook onto that bugger for a drag.

Ed_K · « **Reply #40 on:** July 09, 2005, 07:51:12 pm »

Kool,

. Looks like your ready to move some spruce.

tnlogger · « **Reply #41 on:** July 09, 2005, 08:11:39 pm »

that is a good looking well built rig you have a right to gloat on this one

not not that ya need to cause we'll do it for ya

Norm · « **Reply #42 on:** July 10, 2005, 08:02:15 am »

Great job Joan, although some polka dots would've really set it off.

sprucebunny · « **Reply #43 on:** July 10, 2005, 08:16:07 am »

Think I'll save up for stripes, Norm

Thanks every one

I'll be up your way in a few weeks , Marcel, but I don't think there will be room on the trailer for the sawmill and the skidder

Thanks, though

Yes , SD. Too big for pulp. Sometimes the logger quarters them but it's alot of work for pulp prices

I haven't given up on moving that big log yet. Headed out the door for another whack at it

Jeff · « **Reply #44 on:** July 10, 2005, 09:03:27 am »

Joan, are you getting a sawmill?

Kevin · « **Reply #45 on:** July 10, 2005, 09:22:49 am »

Joan;
Everything has its limitations, you might do better pulling that with a log arch or rollers under the log.
Nice job, looks good.

sprucebunny · « **Reply #46 on:** July 10, 2005, 09:25:21 am »

Yes, Jeff

It matches my Forestry Forum cant hook

Thanks, Kevin. I don't really care about moving that big log .... it's just close and was good for tests

isawlogs · « **Reply #47 on:** July 10, 2005, 09:26:07 am »

If you are up my way and are within driving range , you are more then welcom to stop in . Actually I would be piffed if you did not ...

As for that mill you mentioned , if you need a hand with it give me a shout .

Jeff · « **Reply #48 on:** July 10, 2005, 09:27:01 am »

Blue Mill? Baker?

sprucebunny · « **Reply #49 on:** July 10, 2005, 09:29:22 am »

Thanks, Marcel. I'll let you know

No , Jeff. My cant hook is the only other green one

isawlogs · « **Reply #50 on:** July 10, 2005, 09:31:41 am »

You are going to have to do better than that ... Go on now fill us in on the details ...

Welderbunny is going to be sawerbunny

tnlogger · « **Reply #51 on:** July 10, 2005, 09:33:10 am »

Jeff looks like getting the name of the mill from sb will be like pulling teath outa a wolverine

sprucebunny · « **Reply #52 on:** July 10, 2005, 09:39:33 am »

OK....OK...

I've ordered a Champion sawmill. I tried hard to buy a sponsors mill but they didn't have the combination of things I wanted for the same price. Baker came the closest.
Here is a link . They have one of the best websites of any mill manufacturer. Lots of pictures and specifications.
Champion sawmill

Jeff · « **Reply #53 on:** July 10, 2005, 09:45:25 am »

Well, give them boys in green a good talking to about the Forestry Forum. We can make em famous.

sprucebunny · « **Reply #54 on:** July 10, 2005, 09:52:02 am »

I'll do that , Jeff.

I had to wait 2 months to get it so they might have to expand to get famouser ( an ARKY word ! )

Jeff · « **Reply #55 on:** July 10, 2005, 09:57:30 am »

famouser

I remember that post. One of my best If I dont say so myself.

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=9988.msg136381#msg136381

sprucebunny · « **Reply #56 on:** July 10, 2005, 10:02:48 am »

I think so, too, Jeff

I think of that post/picture every time I run into that word

tnlogger · « **Reply #57 on:** July 10, 2005, 10:03:48 am »

yup i think that was the start of the arky stick

Ernie · « **Reply #58 on:** July 10, 2005, 03:27:29 pm »

Joan all I can say is WOW. That saying "girls can do anything" sure is a massive understatement in your case.

I'm just surprised that with all your obvious skill and talent you aren't building your own mill.

Minnesota_boy · « **Reply #59 on:** July 10, 2005, 04:37:48 pm »

Gee, when she said GREEN I thought she had ~~swindled~~ bought Florida Deadheader's Homemizer.

Ernie · « **Reply #60 on:** July 10, 2005, 06:30:18 pm »

Unclebuck

Got any pics of your finished dog houses/castles?

Sounds like a great idea

leweee · « **Reply #61 on:** July 10, 2005, 10:13:36 pm »

Congrates Joan

.. on the purchase of a sawmill

Spruce(sawyer)bunny ...now that has a nice ring to it. Play safe & have fun.

UNCLEBUCK · « **Reply #62 on:** July 11, 2005, 12:29:21 am »

Sprucebunny getting/got a sawmill ! Yahooooooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ernie thats the one and only pic I got . Thats over 20 years old the day after I came home from log cabin school and I needed to practice and built a dog castle . I dont have a clue where it went too . Wish I had a digital camera and computer back then . Have fun sawing s.b. . Looks rugged like a big john deere

Patty · « **Reply #63 on:** July 11, 2005, 11:24:58 am »

Hey Joan,

I checked out your new sawmill at their website. It is WAY COOL.

Which HP did you order? You will really enjoy making lumber; it is great fun. Be sure to take lots of pictures when your new mill arrives.

Murf · « **Reply #64 on:** July 11, 2005, 11:31:41 am »

Joan, it looks great, well done!!

If I may though, offer a little technical advise, you need to have a pressure relief valve in the circuit that feeds that lift cylinder to protect it, same as a snowplow has.

If not any sudden shock loads, such as a log snagging, or even just accumulated wear & tear will overload the seals on that cylinder at the very least, if not bend it, break a weld, or some of that framework.

You may also want to look into some form of mechanical lock to hold the frame at the desired height, a constant load will be created when you pull that will be hard on the cylinder since it will be on the weak side of the cylinder. Even just a chain to take the weight off the cylinder would be a big help.

sprucebunny · « **Reply #65 on:** July 11, 2005, 06:26:15 pm »

Thanks for the encouragement and congrats , guys

Patty, I ordered it with the 20 hp Hondr , also the heavy wall rectangular tubing frame 24' long . I'm planning to build one or more log cabins from spruce trees on my land. Some thing I've always wanted to do

Murf, this machine came with all the hydraulics....it was a trail groomer of some sort. Wouldn't the pressure relief valves already be in it ? I looked at all 4 of my (Fischer) plows and didn't spot the relief valves

I moved a 16' long w. pine. The hydraulics reached thier maximum retraction powerwise and squealed. Isn't that a pressure relief valve

Ernie · « **Reply #66 on:** July 11, 2005, 08:10:51 pm »

Quote from: sprucebunny on July 11, 2005, 06:26:15 pm

squealed. Isn't that a pressure relief valve
(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

It was probably a squeal of glee at being part of your wonderful machine

Murf · « **Reply #67 on:** July 12, 2005, 09:46:19 am »

Joan, yes there would be a pressure relief valve on the system, but not on the circuit.

I didn't use the technical term, Cross Over Relief Valve, or Cushion Valve, since I figured it would just be more confusing, it is just a fancy kind of relief valve.

It is basically a spring loaded safety valve, and it goes downstream of the control valve, between the valve and cylinder that is, that way when the valve that operates the circuit is closed, there is still a little "give" inside of the now sealed circuit.

On your Fisher, or any other snowplow, it is built right in to the main pump/solenoid package. On the plow it works like a big hydraulic fuse, if the outside edge of the blade were to hit something, the load on the angle cylinder would be tremendous becuase of the leverage and weight & momentum of the truck.

The same is true of your skidder frame, once the logs are in the air, as they are in the above picture, and you release the control valve for the lift cylinder, the hydraulic fluid in that circuit is trapped there. If a log were to sneg, or the load changed suddenly, there would be a sudden pressure increase that could far surpass the burst strength of a line, the cylinder seals, or a weld.

A Cross Over Relief Valve would act like a spring in such case, allowing the load to be asbsorbed by some motion in the fuild, rather than allowing it to build beyond the ability of the system to contain it.

A valve is only about $50 brand new, compared to the possible consequences of a failure, it's cheap insurance. The circuit you're using may already have one in it, but be sure there's one in there before you do any serious hauling with it.

maple flats · « **Reply #68 on:** July 12, 2005, 07:49:11 pm »

Sprucebunny, good job there. Looks to me like the log in the above pic is tight against the blade, if this is so when towing tremendous force is placed on the components when you turn and there is no give, something breaks. If this is not tight when towing you are good to go.
Put up some pics of the new mill when you get it.
Really sounds to me like you are one fantastic woman, too bad I'm very happily married.

Brad_S. · « **Reply #69 on:** July 13, 2005, 06:45:31 am »

Congrats on the mill purchase, SB!

The red team missed a chance at a good field rep. Looks like it's the green team's win.

sprucebunny · « **Reply #70 on:** July 14, 2005, 07:56:39 am »

Thanks, maple flats and Ernie and Brad-S

I'm looking into the pressure relief cushion valves , Murf.

Maple flats... ya the log tight on the plate isn't so good. I have a couple of ideas to improve that. Changing the angle of the plate would help or maybe a bar that stuck out behind and across the face of the plate that the chains ran over. With smaller diameter logs there would be less leverage .
There are way too many bugs ( deer flies-I hate them ) and the ground is soft from all the rain so I can't take it out to play...I mean experiment. Another few weeks and I'll be out finding fodder for the mill

Murf · « **Reply #71 on:** July 14, 2005, 10:12:04 am »

Joan, most that I've seen the blade has a return at the bottom, a flange or shelf sort of affair that angles out and down.

The log sort of rests on top of that flange but is pulled by the chain. This allows a small contact area at the bottom that works like a trailer hitch and allows the load and the skidder to swivel to turn a corner or steer.

The other way you could do it, and maybe easier, is to have a boom pole sticking out over the plate, kind of like a small wrecker. Then the plate is just there in case you stop faster than a log, or to anchor you when winching. In fact some teeth on the bottom of that plate would help with that too.

maple flats · « **Reply #72 on:** July 14, 2005, 07:16:30 pm »

Just try leaving about 6-8" slack, you can lift the log but can still turn. I used to sell Fransgard Log winches (3 pt hitch, tractor) and the only one that ever needed repair was one that the owner winched too tight with a rather heavy log or logs and drove around turns in the woods on his route out. The logs actually made a slight indent in the blade where they hit and as the logs tried to swing around because they could not pivot at that point they bent the winch drum shaft, which the mfgr had never been able to do in product testing (bend the shaft that is). The mfgr actually fixed it anyways but the customer was given a refund and we sold the unit as rebuilt to another man. The first owner refused to believe that there was too much force applied while turning with the log tight to the blade.

sprucebunny · « **Reply #73 on:** July 14, 2005, 08:05:11 pm »

That must have been some heavy logs he had

I could skid the logs from the winch cable which is visible in the photo, also.

Fla._Deadheader · « **Reply #74 on:** July 14, 2005, 08:39:52 pm »

WOW, Don't know how I missed all the updates on this thread

Joan, great job on that skidder. Especially like the paint job.

Good news on the mill purchase. Where do ya think all the time will come from, to operate the chainsaw, skidder, Sawmill, stack and sticker the lumber, drag off the slabs, cook the meals, do the laundry, check in with the FF

Youse gonna be one very busy young lady

Roxie · « **Reply #75 on:** July 16, 2005, 07:08:15 am »

Been following ya here Sprucebunny. Two words.....

YEE HAW!!!!

Vermonter · « **Reply #76 on:** August 17, 2005, 10:02:33 pm »

Congrats on the new mill. I think they build one DanG good mill, I like a lot of their features.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #77 on:** August 18, 2005, 06:47:43 am »

When are we gonna see some new boards? Am I gonna have to come down and do some off-bearing?

sprucebunny · « **Reply #78 on:** August 18, 2005, 07:58:40 am »

Thanks, everyone

Sure, SwampDonkey

That would be great. First They got to build the access road

and then I got to collect a pile of logs. Maybe in October

sprucebunny · « **Reply #79 on:** March 03, 2006, 06:51:33 pm »

Well I never did take the cat up there this summer partly because the access road wasn't done till mid November

Then it's been a poor winter but now the trail has hard snow and no snowmobiles are out so I took the cat up there today to recover some recently blown down balsam.

Once I remembered how to work the winch (

), we yanked a hung up tree down and dragged it away

There are 2 logs hitched up and then we dragged the smallest log out with the quad and dragged all 3 a mile and a half.

The balsam is about 15" at the butt. It was hung up in the birch behind Steve.

The cat also enjoyed it's first picnic

You can see one wing of the Coleman stove.

I'm pretty excited that this thing works well

and even more excited that we didn't break anything ....yet

Oh... and when I got to the little icy hill and spun the tracks I backed the whole messs up about 15 feet !!!! Finally got over the little hill by Steve pulling the cat with his quad

isawlogs · « **Reply #80 on:** March 04, 2006, 10:47:40 pm »

Joan
Glad to see that thing out there earning its keep .

I am also pleased to hear that it works and that you are having fun getting logs out for the mill .
How long where these ,

I guess you dont have studs on the tracks of the cat , those steel crossers on ice dont have much traction do they ..

sprucebunny · « **Reply #81 on:** March 04, 2006, 11:13:30 pm »

Thanks, Marcel

The logs were all about 16 feet.

Nope, no studs, but I'm thinking hard about adding them or fixing that spot in the trail

I can't wait to get back up there and drag some more logs

isawlogs · « **Reply #82 on:** March 07, 2006, 07:56:21 pm »

Did you get that mill going and saw all those logs up yet ..

Have you pull any more logs Joan .

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #83 on:** March 07, 2006, 08:07:57 pm »

It's probably getting sloppy down to joan's in the woods. It is up here, snows been melting by 10 am, ground is chilled in the mornings. Nearly no snow in alot of fields, further north of me there is more snow. There is also about 8 inches of ice and crust in the woods, less on south slopes.

isawlogs · « **Reply #84 on:** March 07, 2006, 08:32:26 pm »

I have been breaking trails with the skidder . I have a JD 540 , enough snow out there to have the belly pans leave there mark on the snow . I went saturday all day and went back there today and openned up a couple of landings . One for the pine and one for poplar . And then broke some more trails .
Where I drove saturday I could move around in fith gear .. as soon as you fall off you are back down to first and playing with the steering to get around .

sprucebunny · « **Reply #85 on:** March 07, 2006, 08:36:37 pm »

No logs today. I tried to take a mini-dump trailer load ( 1 cu yd ) out to the icy spot with the cat. Turns out there is ANOTHER icy spot

Had to shovel /dump out the trailer and move the cat ahead and tow the trailer with the winch..... Got the cat turned around and slid on the ice sideways into the trailer

Just my typical day

Finally got that all untangled with no damage to anything and got all the toys back to thier parking spot.

It got up to about 34F today but things are still pretty well frozen in the shade.

Think I will need to start a new log yard beyond the icy spot

Sure wish I had your snow problems , Marcel

isawlogs · « **Reply #86 on:** March 08, 2006, 10:57:57 pm »

Joan
Sure wish I could give them to you .

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