New to the forum

[woodchopper]

Hello everyone....  Been browsing here for a few days... listening and keeping my mouth shut ( Mom told me one time to do that!)   I have been kicking the idea of a sawmill operation around for a few years.  Just left the trucking industry after several years (sales - not driving)  Seriously considering a WoodMizer 70 ...  Decided if I am gonna do this - I am gonna do it right and get with the program...  Custom Cutting only... I am not really interested in the logging side of it... nor the woodlot ( except some choice stuff I might find to eventually find it's way into my woodshop)  ... Should I run in the opposite direction screaming??? Should I go have my head Examined???  Your comments would be welcomed... Thanks

[Chet]

First off welcome.     Second you don't mention ever working around or with a portable sawmill. If I was in yur shoes I would seek one out, and spend a few days sawing and learnin'. I might make it easier to make yur decision.
Also do a little homework, is there enough need in your area to support such an endeavor?   

[tnlogger]

woodchopper welcom to the forum. as far as the LT70 goes it's top of the line. but you'll need at least one or better 2 offbearers to help you to get production out of it. we have a few guys on here that run them and they can give you a better insite then i can.
 If you get a chance fill in your profile and plant a tree on the members map so we can see where you are. again welcome gene

[MULE_MAN]

Welcome woodchopper

I suggest you find a mill and be a offbearer for a couple days, If you can't get out of bed
the 3 rd day. You might want to rethink your plan.      It's pretty physical work !!
It really just depend on what your use to doing, If you enjoy hard work & it doesn't
bother you, go for it , But I think a LT70 is a rather large Mill for a beginner.
Just my 2 cents worth .   

[woodchopper]

Thanks again...

My choice of the 70 was based on a several things.. If you take the 40 and add all the goodies to it that make cutting simpler and more professional - you are in close range to the 70 that already has all of that incorporated plus the addition of the new Cat 60 hp engine...  What would be your choice?

I spent years and years in the custom feed business - furnishing commercial feed lots with thousands of tons of  rough feed... in that business you turn in your bed for a latern... No, hard work is not an issue...

[Tom]

If you're really serious, buy what your wallet can afford.

custom cutting is a strange beast.  You will always have customers that will want what you can't provide.  You still have to be prepared to provide as much of what will be presented as possible. 

I broke my myself in on an LT40HD and it did everything that needed to be done accept cut longer than 20 feet, regularly.  Yes, you can make it do it by moving the cant, but that's not a good option when a farmer is looking for ten thousand feet of 25 foot stuff, moving the cant on a 20 foot mill isn't a good option.

Age and Hydraulic log handling go hand in hand too.  Buy as much "help" as you can.  You won't regret it.

For most jobs a Lt40 is sufficient, a Super is great and a 70 overkill.  If you have the means to move a 70 around you will have all you will ever need.

Here is something to keep in mind.  Setting the mill up frequently becomes more difficult with the weight and complication of the mill.  I have set my LT40 twice in a day on different jobs and a few times have serviced 3 jobs in a day.  That is tough with a big heavy mill and big truck. 

Many, if not most, custom sawing jobs are performed in people's front yards, driveways and the street out front.   Big mills and big trucks are almost impossible to get into a cul-de-sac.  A LT40 and a half ton truck will make the grade.

Not all jobs are cutting large amounts of lumber in a pasture where you have a lot of room and some log handling equipment.  When you run into those situations, Lots of horsepower and fancy setworks sure come in handy.

[Bibbyman]

Welcome to the Forum! 


You should have no problems running your own custom sawing business.  You've got us to learn from - WE'VE ALREADY MADE ALL THE MESTAKES SO YOU WON"T HAVE TO!

When you get that new LT70, get a camera to take pictures.

[Back40x2]

Woodchopper,

   Welcome home ole' boy   You'll get much knowledge and know how here.  It will acutally become addictive.  Almost as much as making sawdust.  One thing the guys have failed to mention, is your other half(Better Half)     I bet mine wishes she had'nt given my the go ahead.  Anyway, that is another story

   I started out about 2 years ago, with a Timberking 1600, with the basic hydraulics to get me by.  I love the mill, but now having done this a bit, It's alot of work.  I wish now I had gone with the B-20.  All hyraulic!!   Little smaller of a cut, but more suited for production and its not over kill.

   As someone said earlier, it really depends on the demand in your area.  Do your homework   That's the best advise I can give you!  I not only saw for other people, but get alot of logs from local tree services and cities from Urban Tree removals.  This has brought a lot of work for me!  There again, is this something that's obtainable in your area.

   After this year, I hope not to be sawing for anyone period, except myself.  You really need to go out and promote yourself.  Get some cards made up, hang adds in stores,  anything to let people know what you are doing and can provide.  People today want a service provided to them, but they are not going to come to you if they don't know about you

   As far as the LT70.  HUGE Machine .  Total Overkill for what you are about to attempt.  Reason 1.  You are just a beginner, Learn first what it takes.  2. This is a production machine with high bf capacity, but you need a couple people to make it work like that.  Cutting and offbearing at the same time.  You can't do that by yourself, I promise you that   My 3rd reason would be, what happens if you don't like sawing   What do you do with that big thing now!  You would then have to find someone who is doing production and hope they want to buy it.

   The LT40 Super Caught my eye, when I first started.  Nice mill, but the the pricetag was a little scary to start with for the 3rd reason I just gave you.  You can always upgrade    I did this year to a Peterson WPF.  You got nothing but time.  Go about it wisely and realisticly.

Again Welcome to the FORUM

Pete 

[woodchopper]

What a great forum!!!!   I have been on the computer for years and years... signed on to forums for information of one sort or another-- only to be disappointed over the response - usually none.   I really appreciate everyone's comments...   
I just left a high pressure job after years... You folks have been out here making money and Having a good Time -   Someone told me years ago "if you ever find something to do that you really like -  it is not going to work anymore - it is going to play"  that same dude is now 80+ and looks and feels like he is 50....   Maybe he is on to something???
Years ago my brother and I were running a big tub grinder (simular to what the grind up wood scraps with).  I cursed our decision on the engine size several times.. ( maybe hundreds during the winter when it was damp and hard to grind)  I told myself if I ever bought another piece of powered equipment  I would not skimp on engine size....
I guess when we make a decision to do something  - we either need to put our heart in it or go find a job that the most difficult part is saying "Would you like fries with that Hamburger?   
All your inputs are carefully being analyzed... please dont stop...

[fstedy]

               Welcome Woodchopper
As others have said take the time to survey your area to see what kind of business you are going to get this will tell you the equipment you will need. The mill is the key piece,  but there are other factors also ( resaws, kilns and planners ect. ). It is a lot of work especially if you work by yourself all that power and speed comes to a screeching halt when you offload. Another note check out the insurance situation in your area it's not inexpensive or easy to obtain for a sawmill. Just my 2 pence.

[fstedy]

Check out the for sale section looks like a very nice machine with low hours and its close to your location. I bet if you took a road trip up there you might get a lot of insite hands on and maybe a great mill.

[ronwood]

Welcome tho the forum woodchopper.

I started out with an LT40HG25 and it works well. If I am cutting by myself it will keep me busy. If I were to buy another one I would get the 28hp fuel injected motor and  accuset. The standard LT40 is light enough to pull around with the 1/2 ton pickup. If I went to a LT70 it would take a bigger mill plus cost a lot more.

Good mill (LT40)  for just starting out.  Just my 2 cents worth. Good luck
Ron

[Bro. Noble]

The best time you can spend right now (in addition to participating in this forum) in my opinion is to visit as many mills and operations as you reasonably can.  You will learn something at each place you visit.  Check the members map and see who lives near you, maybe they will beat you to it and ask you to visit them.  As Bibbyman said,  we have already made lots of mistakes so you just as well benefit from that   There's stuff you need to know that you never dream of till you see how others do things.  No two operations are alike so you need to see what fits your situation and goals.  And as far as mills,  you really need to see them in operation to make the best choice.

Welcome and good luck

[Chet]

What a great forum!!!! I have been on the computer for years and years... signed on to forums for information of one sort or another-- only to be disappointed over the response - usually none.

See, ya shoulda come here first.   

[Bibbyman]

A real good way to look at all the Wood-Mizer line,  see them demoed and talk to real people that own and run them is to attend one of their open houses.  They generally have one at every service center each year and a couple 3-4 in Indy. 



Taken at a WM open house in Mt. Vernon, MO. last spring.  They had one model each from LT15 to LT70.  About 100 people that at any one time - mix of about half owners and half shoppers.

[hiya]

welcome Woodchopper,
Your right next door.
Richard

[gmmills]

Woodchopper,

      A LT 70 is a lot of mill for on site custom cutting. A LT 40H or a LT 40 SH would be my chioce.  A super has faster hydraulics also heavier duty carriage drive and head drive motors than the standard hydraulic mill.  As far as power choices, I would definitely go diesel. A diesel is more fuel efficient and has more constant torque. If you are planning to work by yourself any amount of time Command Control, and board return are worth the extra money. My first mill was a 40 walk behind and trying to saw productively by yourself was extremely difficult. I think a LT 40H diesel with Command Control would be a sweet choice.

[sigidi]

Can't advise ya on anythin other than buying a swinger

But I can say g'day and keep ya eyes peeled for terrific info

[TN_man]

Woodchopper,
Just wanted to welcome you.
I would echo what alot of the others have said about a LT70 being overkill for custom milling. Alot of mills are for sale out there because the guy bit off more then he could chew at first. Think and pray about your decision and then you can count on this forum for moral support and advice.

[dewwood]

Woodchopper,

Welcome to the Forum!  There have been a lot of good ideas put forth in the above reply's.  The thing(which has been mentioned) to consider is: what is your normal clientele and how much are they willing to pay you to saw for them.  You may have the capability of several hundred board feet per hour but your customer supplied help is at the 200 bf per hour level and less as the day wears on.  So if you plan on 800 bf per hour because your machine will do it you are going to be sorely disappointed.  Then you might quote an hourly rate based on what your equipment investment is and what your production capabilities are, you will probably be priced higher than most people will want to pay.  To conclude I would say match your mill to the type of work you will be doing and what it will take to receive a reasonable return on your total investment and pay for your time. 

[Bibbyman]

I’z just thinkin’.   Where a LT70 mill would come in real handy is if you went around to all the circle mills (assuming there are some in your area),  and setup and sawed their high-grade logs.   The extra yield they’d recover would pay for your services.

Another note:

Last fall Mary and I visited an sawmill operation with an LT70E25 and the rest of the system – logdeck, conveyer, board separator,  edger.  Although the logs (walnut) were real dogs (small, crooked, lots of defect),  the sawyer was able to keep one guy busy constantly kicking slabs off the separator and feeding flitches through the edger.  Another guy on the other side of the edger was constantly stacking and trimming ends, etc.  There wasn’t any lost motion or resting.

A fourth guy was sweeping and cleaning up.   I could see where he could be used about half the time loading logs, moving lumber, slabs, etc.

[DanG]

Welcome in, Woodchopper!  You've been getting some good input here.  Assuming you're gonna by a new mill, rather than used, consider the cost of upgrading rather than downgrading, later.  If you have to make a change, you'll give up a bit on the sale...say 15% for argument's sake.  I'd rather give up 15% of $20,000 on the upgrade, than 15% of $60,000 on the downgrade. Just something else to think about in case you run out of things to think about.

Keep your business plan flexible.  My operation hasn't turned out at all like I had envisioned, but I've been able to stay afloat by going with the flow.

Have you considered other types of mills, or are you dead-set on a band saw?  The others deserve a look, too.  Try to spend a few hours with somebody in the shed, sharpening bands after a hard day's work. 

There are several guys running band mills in my area that couldn't saw a decent board if their life depended on it. That ain't the fault of the mill, but is due to the fact that they ain't done their homework.  There's a whole lot more to sawing than lining up and pulling the handle.  You've already taken the best first step you could, by coming here to The ForestryForum.

[Rockn H]

Welcom, Woodchopper.
DanG and Back40 have some really good points.  There is an LT 70 maybe 3 miles from me and its permanent.  He tried moving it when he first got it but the mill is heavy and if you want to open it up ,production wise, it best set up with a resaw and at least 2 off bearers. With a super 40 you have the hydraulics and production along with portability.  Resale ,as mentioned, if you should feel like upgrading is close to retail.  From the sound of your last post you seem to be thinking custom portable sawing and from my experience you may be looking at less than a 1000bf per job, a good way to start though if you don't have access to logs yourself.  With that type of operation a 40 or something similar would seem the way to go.  I am a little bias towards the yellowishred brand though.

[RacinRex]

I purchased a small manual mill from a guy who builds them in the shop out back of his house. I paid 3400.00 for it delivered to my house. I added 4 screw jacks at the corners and devised a technique to take the axle off and out of the way to lower the bed down to about mid calf.  I also have two ramps that I hook over a latch I build on the side of the mill. It takes me about 15 minutes to setup on site. I started with only sawing for myself, however I have done a couple of custom jobs now and these guys definately know what they are talking about on here.  At $.20/bd ft some say I'm expensive but I go to the next guy looking for a favor.

The 200bd ft / hr is a very realistic figure with supplied help.  With Sharp blades and the logs lined up and ready to saw I can keep the off bearer pretty darn busy with just a 13HP gas motor and all manual everything. Like you woodchipper I grew up in an atmosphere of work. (100 head family dairy) I can work and do it all day since I'm still only 26 yrs old and at 6ft and 240 I can apply force simply by leaning on a handle  . An LT40 will let you get your feet wet at a whole lot less expense than the LT70. I hardly think that a 35 HP Diesel could be considered skimping on power when you consider its a portable mill. We used to produce 4500 bdft in a day with a 70HP farm tractor PTO powering our Frick 00.  I'll tell ya that keeps two teenage boys skampering!!

 I'm using my little trailered setup to earn some extra cash on the weekends is all. It will probably pay for itself after a year or so not bad return for a hobby. Its all about costs, market, and profits

Good luck with your endeavours.