Buying a skidder

[Ironman]

440s are great machines.  I am trying to buy a 440C right now.  The 518s are awesome but you can't find them anywhere and salvage parts are extremely hard to come by since people who own them seem to always repair them and keep them running.  Reason being the South Americans and other very remote logging operations are sucking them all out of North America.  They are extremely reliable in very high humidity regions because they have no electronic components.

You can sell a completely ragged out, salvage 518 to someone in Bolivia or Brazil or Africa for $10-12,000 USD.  They will take them and completely rebuild them using CAT technicians overseas that are top-notch and earn only a dollar or so per hour.

The 518C has acheived cult status, just like the 450C TJ and the JD 440C.  I beleive the new machines are just as good, but with the only exception being they are complicated.  The more complex somethin gis the more likely it is to fail.

Also the new machines are so big.  It seems to me that CAT and JD, if they were smart they would come out with a smaller machine that could satisfy the mom and pop select cut logger as well as overseas eco-sensitive markets where wheelbase dimmensions drive much of the loggers buying criteria in an effort to appease governmental restrictions.

Ironman

[Ironman]

CAT 525B - JD 648G3

The JD is a great Skidder but it is at least $20k more than the 525B and that is if you are here in the Southeastern US where prices are more competitive and JD makes a real effort to discount there machines.  I can't say that the G3 is that much better of a machine.  If you have a logging operation, how much wood do you have to skid to pay for that extra $20 or $30k plus interest over several years.  In some parts of the country the difference is even more significant, as the previous fellow pointed out.

JD has the reputation for Skidders...but CAT is killing them on price and the 525B is a great machine.  If it is taken care of the drivetrain will easily outperform the Deere.  I have seen CATs with ten and eleven thousand hours with all original components.  What's more when er run pressure tests on the main hydraulic pump, transmission and engine they are all spot on spec.  Granted these are machines that had one-owner and were properly maintained.  Since Deere changed there engine design they have not had the same famous reliability.  I talk with loggers from all over the country and this is just what I am hearing.

Ironman

[tiny3]

hi guys
well im finally retiring the jd 748g and have brought a 560 d timberjack(748g3 painted green)with low hours on it.in ten years(22000hrs)the old 748g has had 3 sets of tires,9 hoses and 3 hrs welding on it.were now going to re bush it and give a paint job to be used as a spare skidder.have had ALL the other brands of skidders but nothing compares with the jd,not even close.now to find some deere stickers for the new skidder.....

[Hoop]

$10000 - $15000 for a 440B with a gutted engine is an outrageous price.  About the only way its worth this much is if the remainder of the skidder is so clean you can eat off it.  And you know for a fact that the skidder was used exclusively by a little ol grandma that used it to haul a few drags of firewood  every fall.

Of course, with it sitting out in a field for the last 7 years, we all know that it will require significant work before you can even think about hooking up that first drag of wood.   Hoses are probably all shot.  It may have water seepage into the hydraulic system.  The transmission is a big question mark.  Tires probably gutted/dry rotted as well.

$5000 for a machine of this caliber IMHO is too much.  Too many unknowns.  The person that left the machine sit for 7 years had a major case of stupidity.  If you believe stupidity needs to be rewarded, go ahead & buy the machine.

You can purchase a 440B, maybe even a 440C or 440D in running condition ready to work for $15000. 

[WAGZ]

there's an old lumberjack about 20 miles south of me that has an old JD 440 , its in running condition and he's got it for sale , asking price is $6000.00

[Kodiakmac]

Hi Buck5611.  Good choice if the buggy is in decent shape.  I just bought an old 440 JD this morning after spending months looking at JDs, TJs, TFs.  Had my eye on an old TF in good shape but owner never got winch problems sorted out.  I don't get hung up on the make.  Whether its a JD440, a TJ225 or a TFC4, if you get a good one and treat it well, they'll serve you well.   On the downside, JD axle/planetery and hydraulic components can take a real bite out of your wallet when compared to the TJ and TF stuff, but, on the other hand, the engines and trannie components are the same as in farm tractors, so those used parts aren't too pricey.

Checklist for buying a used bushbuggy is the same regardles of make:

Check engine oil, hydraulic oil for water.antifreeze contamination when the machine has been parked for a few days.  just crack open the oil-pan drain plug a wee bit and let out a 1/2 cup of fluid...if it doesn't look like waste oil, it's probably water or antifreeze.(Water in hydraulic fluid not usually a big problem, but water in engine oil can be)

check pins at the tickle points (have the owner raise front end with blade, put skidder in gear and let the clutch in an out a few times, if the pins/bushings at the articulation points are shot, you'll see the machine buckling up/down at this point)

Check brakes and clutch by holding brakes, putting trannie in a lower-mid gear, and letting out clutch while reving engine.  If engine doesn't stall, the clutch is shot...if you go ahead, brakes need work.

Check skidder and winch by using it. 

As far as price goes, I paid $13,500 Cdn. ( think we're at .84 US) and other than a leak in one of the steering rams, this machine is in great shape (engine totally rebuilt last year and all axles/planetaries changed wihin last 2 years, tires at 70% and 1 set ring chains included)  Hope this helps.

I know that there are lots of other folks on this site who can add to this checklist.  happy Skidding!

God luck with it.

[zackman1801]

the JD 440 is a good machine, they will pull good and do what you need them to do. but after running one i know they like to be tippy and can turn over easily so watch yourself on side hills and uneven ground.

[Arich]

I have a Tree Farmer C6D. The machine is rock solid and the only complaint I have so far is that amount of attention I have had to pay to the winch. I may be wrong but I think that the John Deeres didnt have planetarys.

[Stephen Alford]

A lot of the older skidders only had one cylinder in the middle for steering.  I would consider a  skidder with dual cylinders worth just a tad more. Stephen   

[zackman1801]

a little off topic but how do you steer skidders like that, ive seen some with controls like a dozer, and then i saw a Clark ranger the other day that had nothing, just a flat dash and 2 pedals one on each side. On the sides of the seat  it had 4 levers, one prob for blade, one for winch, one for brake mabey whats the other for?  and how does it steer? really strange. ive see tree farmers with the sticks you move but nothing like that.

[Maineloggerkid]

Clarks steer with a lever down by your side. It would take some getting used to. Timberjacks steer with a lever right in front of you- usually the one on the far left of the dash panel, and you move it up for left, down for right (I think).

[J_T]

T J 225 that I got  is far right  winch center stear far left blade .Stear lever is a tad longer than the others . Thank they make a conversion to install a half wheel 

[Maineloggerkid]

I ran my buddies 240A, and I thought that the steer was far left, maybe not.

[J_T]

Some may be or someone may of changed it cause they liked it that way

[Maineloggerkid]

ya. I don't know- I just ran it for a little while- I stick with john deere for my own skidders.

[J_T]

Had a J D once    T J seams easeyer for an old man to get on an off  And I like that all time  4 wheel drive 

[Maineloggerkid]

JD is all time 4 wheel, just not full time diff lock.

[J_T]

Yep mine is all locked all time . Front and rear fun turning sometime 

[Ironman]

Biggest issue with a machine sitting up for years is the hydraulics, seals, rings and whatnot being dry rotted and cracked.  Soon as you run it and get ti hot they start coming apart everywhere, leaking real bad, throwing trash into the pumps.  The machine has simple gear pumps but still you don't want to replace that too many times before you are so aggravated with it that you wish you'd bought something else.

Also the steering orbital valves on these tractors are notoriously weak for forestry.  A farm tractor can run the same valve forever because it does'nt steer hardly at all.  A skidder is steering constantly, navigating around stumps and trees and whatnot.  They wear out fast and start leaking and then they start pouring fluid.  They cost several thousand new from John Deere.  A machine shop can make you one, but it is still expensive.  Blades are a little weak, beefed up in later years.  Early models had useless blades.  Most older tractors have beefed up blades because the owners took them into the weld shop and added some steel to them.

Otherwise, one of the best skidders ever built.  Not as good as a CAT, but pretty darn good.