slabbers, beam machines, alaskan mills, etc.

[TomFromStLouis]

Help me organize my thoughts on chainsaw milling. I have run through some older threads here, but lack the top down framework to make sense of all the choices for chainsaw milling.

To date, we have subcontracted our sawing to a portable bandmiller, and it has worked out fairly well. However, bandmills have capacity issues and our urban logs can be a challenge. We have ripped/quartered a few big 'uns freehand with little waste, but the other thing that would help our cause is some kind of slabbing attachment to make table material out of 40" logs. As I dabble in this information, I see all kinds of terms and need to sort out my options.

Is an Alaskan mill just any kind of chainsaw mill generically (thus encompassing all of my choices)? I have seen the Beam Machine site and presume that it is a brand name for a simple guide for the saw. Logosol's Big Mill seems a more elaborate (better?) version of the same idea. How many other chainsaw guides are out there? Is the workload similarly heavy for all of them? (Scott B: is your winch-driven  idea unique or are there products on the market that make this kind of sawing easier?) I do not own a Lucas or Peterson, so their slabbing attachments are of no use to me since I presume you need their big setup for the attachment.

Can someone quickly run down, from least to most expensive or least to most effort, what the choices are for breaking down big logs and making wide slabs with a chainsaw? Let's name some names.

[tawilson]

Alaskan mill is a brand name. They make several different sized attachments, I have the smallest. They have a website I've been to. I don't have it bookmarked but a search should locate it for you. I also have the beam machine. I've found it handy to keep both attachments on saws ready to use. Many times it's easier/faster to use the Alaskan to cut the top off the log and then use the beam machine to do the sides.

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Don't have one, but, I believe the Alaskan would be my first choice. They been around a long time, and I know of several folks that use them.

  I believe the Beam Machine is more a freehand type, being only supported on the engine end. The Alaskan has support for the whole bar and chain.  I would like to get a real good deal on an Alaskan myself.

[TomFromStLouis]

   I would like to get a real good deal on an Alaskan myself.

Then how in the heck are you dealing with logs the size of those in your avatar??

BTW, swing blades are not on my list. Even though they deal with any size, they do not make slabs/quarter logs like I want.

Hmmm, just visited Hudson's site. A bandmill that handle 50"+ logs? For $10,000? I have equipment to load the log, maybe this is the high end choice for at least breaking down the big 'uns....

Okay, visited Granberg's Alaskan site. Very few facts, but it looks like the vertical bars do not allow much more than an 18" drop; meaning that you could not use it to rip a 45" log in half on the first cut. True?

Summary of big log slabber ideas so far (open to corrections), low end/most work to more $/less work:

1 - free hand chain ripping. Lacks accuracy.

2 - beam machine types where an inexpensive attachment to the saw and a straighedge help guide the cut. Sounds like it would help the accuracy, but still hard work.

3 - guide mechanisms that support both ends of the long bar (like Logosol Big Mill or Granberg's Alaskan). Need to ascertain that it can allow the first cut down 25" or more to half a big one. Included in this group would be the slabbing attachments for swing blade mills, but they could only be economical if you already have the swig blade. Anyone want to suggest any other brands in this category?

4 - Is there anything between the above and a BIG log bandmill like the Hudson 52"? The Hudson appears to lack any log handling hydraulics or other niceties and may be pricey for infrequent use, but might be the easiest to use on this list.

Care to improve the summary?

[ronwood]

TomFromStLouis,

Have you considered a low end Lucus or Peterson swing mill with a slabbing attachment. I don't think I would try to use a the Hudsun for that wide a cut.

Only my thoughts.
Ron

[TomFromStLouis]

Well, the more I look at the Hudson, I see that it is not exactly what I need since it too has depth limitations.

How would a low end Peterson with slabber differ from a Logosol Big Mill? They both have tracks on both sides right?

[IndyIan]

Tom,
I have an alaskan, I'm pretty sure the maximum depth is 12.5"  Also cutting a 50" log in half would be a two man operation with an alaskan unless you rig up something, bungies or a winch.  
If your final product is 2" slabs then maybe an alaskan is a good option.  You first cut needs to be guided anyways so you cut max depth, probably knock off a 10" thick slab.  Then you run the alaskan guide rails on the smooth cut, so the next cut is pretty near the middle of a 50" log.  

If you doing all that you might as well cut all your slabs with the alaskan anyways.  If you wanted to do alot of this, a huge saw, modded, would save some aggravation.  I'd guess 2k to get a good alaskan set up going.  Big saw, big bars, lots of ripping chain, good bench grinder, big alaskan, with the aux oiler.

Ian  

[Fla._Deadheader]

  We built our mill, and it will saw 37" wide. Sometimes, we have to take a slab and turn, etc. It IS hard work, no matter how you do it. If I were looking to do the sawing, I would definitely get a Swing Blade w/slabber.

  You can get 12-14 table slabs from a 48" log, figuring 2" thick, + ¼" kerf. The rest of the slabs will be not as wide, and make chair bottom, benches, legs, etc. If the slabs bring $200.00 each, that's $2400--$2800 PER LOG, just for the 12-14 Table slabs. Looks to me like, 2 --48" logs will buy the swinger. After that, it's gravy.  Then, you can saw all the smaller logs and not have to pay someone to do it for you, ESPECIALLY if the sawing can be done on-site of the logs. THAT would be the least intensive way to do the slabs.  Not familiar with the Hudson, but, you already know how difficult it is to manhandle the big logs.

  Just my 2 pennies worth

[Paul_H]

It would be simple and inexpensive to lengthen the  depth guides to suit your needs if you get an Alaskan mill This one will do 13" deep slabs
and will only allow somewhere around 32 " wide but again it wouldn't take much to modify that either.

[sigidi]

Tom,
how about a dedicated slabber on a swinger frame set up, ok you don't have the swinger but it's a much cheaper option and a heck of a lot easier to saw logs than all the back breaking of alaskan type mills

[Ianab]

Tom.

Have a look at the Peterson mill with a clip on slabber. Gives you a full swingblade mill that converts to a slabber in 10 mins or so. Advantage is that it's powered by a decent 24 or 27 hp 4 stroke, not a chainsaw. With that you can quartersaw the first 1/3 of a big log, remove the blade and bolt on the slabber. Cut some slabs from the middle of the log, replace the blade and saw up the bottom 1/3 as well.
Much better than mucking about with chainsaws, especially if you are looking at production. I think it would be much cheaper than a bandsaw that could handle the same logs, and you wont need much in the way of log handling equipment. Big logs can be cut where they are sitting. And you can cut up small logs just as easy 

Ian

[Paul_H]

I guess I'm naturally frugal and if it was only for a few logs like Tom mentioned,I think the Alaskan fit's the bill. The logs don't have to be placed to split them and the Alaskan setup is something that can be brought out,used and put away until next time.As far as hard work goes,it never seemed too bad to me because you can only go as fast as the saw will let you and it is resting on the guides so you're not holding up the weight of the saw.

It is slow and monotonous, but handy to have around.

If there were several logs per week to be split and cost isn't an issue then I'd agree that the slabber would be the way to go,especially if you could contract out and split for other mills to offset the purchase.

[rebocardo]

I had looked at these people before:

http://www.norwoodindustries.com

and I had seriously thought about an Alaskan, but then I went with a Procut mill at the last minute:

http://www.procutportablesawmills.com/

To me, the main advantage was I already owned the engine (my chain saw), it was extremely portable, and the most important thing was I could do it by myself without being on my knees. I was not crazy about setting up the ladder for an Alaskan, it looked too complicated for me.

Just built a trailer wide enough to handle your biggest log. The bigger the log the lower to the ground I would design the trailer, even designing it to sit on the ground. If all you are doing is table slabs, then build it 4 feet wide by ten feet long for the track and a really good frame for the bar. Plus, you can haul the wood away on the trailer.

With my urban lumber and metal, cement, and stone objects I probably would skip a Lucas, though they look tempting if you do not look at the cost.

[oldsaw]

The Alaskan is a good idea as long as you have a decent chainsaw.  You can get a big one (Brian Baily has a 54" or some godforsaken similar size) and as someone else mentioned, you could easily add to the verticals.   Keep in mind that your BARE minimum would be a 100cc class saw, and you really should be looking for a 120cc (088/3120), or an 090 (137cc).

That being said, if you can profit from some big slabs, or added quartersawing, you could easily save up for something more elaborate.  Worst case scenario, even if you bought everything new, you would be out $2000 with a 120cc saw.

Get creative, but plan to get what you really need eventually.  This would be a cheap "step through" since, if you are like me, you can always use a big saw anyway, and the Alaskan would allow you to do some wierd stuff (crotches, big slabs, etc) that you couldn't do otherwise.  It takes up little space, and can be put together in minutes as the need requires.  After owning one and having access to a bandmill, the Alaskan still pays its way, most recently cutting down logs to fit on the bandmill.

[Ianab]

I agree with getting an Alaskan and a big saw if you only want to do a few logs, or as an experiment. Cut up a few logs and see how the drying / selling goes. If you dont take it any further, your only real $$$ outlay was a big chainsaw, and if you're dealing with big logs from time to time anyway then it's still going to be usefull, even if you just use it with a beam machine to quarter  / buck oversize logs.

I would still recomend the Peterson with slabber if you are going to do any serious amount of sawing. That will let you quatersaw / flatsaw OR slab practically any log.

Cheers

Ian

[KiwiCharlie]

Hi Tom,
Wells it pretty well been covered here, but I will add my 2c worth.  I think the Beam machine would be too small for what youre looking at doing.  The Granberg Alaskan is not too much of a $ outlay, is very portable, and if your looking to do table type slabs, would be suited for that.  It does only cut to 13", but unless youve got some form of machinery to deal with a slab that thick then theres not much point!    Id blow my foo-foo valve trying to cant-hook that around!    If a market develops for the slabs you get, then a move up to something like Ian and others mentioned with the slabbing attachment would work well also.
Cheers
Charlie.

[Furby]

Harold,
How come you haven't made an Alaskan?
I'm working on one right now, and if I can even get close to making this thing work, I KNOW you could toss it together in a half hour.

[TomFromStLouis]

I appreciate all the talk about these things - I learn more with each post.

Let me bring everyone up to date on my situation and maybe we can hone in on the right product. Joe and I have an urban log recycling business that spends 90% of our time and effort hauling logs. The lumber idea is to try and get a better margin on some logs than selling them as logs. For example, QS  sycamore is reasonably valuable as lumber and we have sold some with success and it certainly is better than tie or pallet material despite the effort. Grade oak logs we just sell unless a big fat white begs us to be quartered. Spalted logs, cherry or walnut with a big crotch at the end, anything unique and we will have it sawn just to have (hello, my name is Tom and I like wood). Sometimes it even sells! We simply do not have enough manpower to branch off into full time sawing and lumber selling (sort of a chicken and egg problem really). The solar kiln can dry ~1500-2000 bf in a month and will be a bottleneck if we dive into lumber in a big way.

So I am exploring ways to augment what our bandmiller can already do for us and the main problem is big logs and crotches. Buying a swinger because it is easier to use makes sense but it would not see much time besides with the slabber. We quarter the big ones for the bandmill or slab crotches and occasional table material. Sounds like a chainsaw mill situation to me, but I have read enough about the effort involved to explore the next rung up the ladder. Is there anything a notch or two up that does not require buying an entire swingblade mill? I will talk to Peterson but want to know any other choices you might suggest....

[Furby]

Since moving the logs doesn't seem to be a problem. Could you build or have built (maybe do some trading for the work) a non portable slabber?
Something like a cross between a procut mill and a peterson slabber.
A couple rails leveled and bolted to a concrete pad, a carrige like the procut mill built to the size you need, a big bar, and a 20 some horse engine.
Set the log between the rails and cut away!
You would have to use your grapple to turn the log if you are just quartering it, and would need some kind of clamp or blocking to hold the log after the first split.


Just thought I'd add this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=61788&item=3875734049&rd=1

[Fla._Deadheader]

  We built our mill for $5000.00. I have NO doubt that we could build a slabber for under that price. Engine, gearbox, a little lathe work, and mod up the drive sprocket and get a long bar and chain. Frame would be the easiest thing.