Forestry winch Adjustment?/Problems (Merged topics)

[Al B]

Hello everyone.   Retired and doing what I want, which is trying to become somewhat skilled at harvesting wood.  I like to be in the woods and don't really push hard.

Recently purchased a small tractor and a Fransgard 2800 winch.
Between where the cable goes from the top, -straight down, to wind on the drum,- and the drum itself,  it slipped out from behind the metal guard, which was positioned incorrectly, apparently at the factory.  Other than a couple of "flat spots" in the cable, it didn't seen to cause any harm. 
At any rate, before I spotted this, I tried adjusting the clutch.

I did mark the adjustment bolts original position before loosening them.
I pulled a small log to test and it worked fine.  Then muckled onto a couple of larger ones.  It pulled a couple of feet and stopped just as if the log was hung up.  Now the winch will pull in with no load, however with even a small load it will not wind in despite numerous adjustments, - (even tried a quarter -half turn at a time for about 10-12 attempts).
 
All appears to point toward the clutch adjustment.  My question is am I overlooking  something else?  Do the adjustment bolts have to be the exact same distance?  Is it so sensitive that even with methodical adjustments I went by the "right spot"?

I have the book and when I go by it I end up very close to where my "original"position marks are.  Same results.

This winch is only a couple of months old and has not been used hard.
The preceeding is my main concern, but I also have a couple of other questions.

What do you use, if anything, to lube the cable itself?

After using the end "hook", with logs also attached to the sliders, the last 10 feet now looks like a pig' tail, all spiraled around.  I think it happened fron the end hook wanting to rotate and the other logs not letting it turn.  Do you folks use the end hook at all?  A swivel?

Appreciate any and all help.  My wife says I really need it!
Al B

[Chet]

Al,
Sorry I can't help ya with you winch problem as I am not familiar with that make or model. But I can welcome you to the forum, I'm sure someone else here will be able to shed some light on your problem.

[Al B]

Chet, Thanks for the welcome.  I have lurked for a while, and have to say this new server really moves.  "Holy ole' Baldface"!

[Chet]

I have lurked for a while, and have to say this new server really moves.  "Holy ole' Baldface"!

Ya got dat right.    It trucks along way faster than my one finger can type.   

[thecfarm]

I never used the end hook on the end to haul logs out or anything at all.Buy another slide if you need more chockers.I replaced my cable a couple times and never put the hook back on.I do not lube the cable at all.Can't help you out with the clutch problem.I have a Norse and never had to adjust the clutch. Welcome to the forum.

[Ed_K]

 I run the 2800 also. On the clutch adjust to the book. I have problems on cold mornings with the cable realing in by itsself if the pto is engaged. And it not wanting to pull. It also is very hard to pull out even with the pto disengaged. I hook to a log and pull on the rope just enough to bring the clutch plate up to the flywheel, and let it slip awhile to warm it up.
 This has worked for this winter. On the cable if your using a slide to winch a hitch sideways it pigtail the cable real good and it won't straighten out. I ruined my first one this way, now I use a pulley and treesaver strap to move hitches sideways. I use both the hook on the cable end and the slides to hook to logs. If two logs are aways apart, pull them individually to a straight line, then hook all and pull in.

[Al B]

 "On the clutch adjust to the book. I have problems on cold mornings with the cable realing in by itsself if the pto is engaged. And it not wanting to pull. It also is very hard to pull out even with the pto disengaged."

Thanks Ed for the advice. 
 
I have also experience the cable being hard to pull out, which is why I asked about some sort of lube.  Thought perhaps a little bit of grease or bar oil wiped on it would help this and also the icing which according to my dealer is why then cable will pull in by itself.

I experienced this a little different from what you did.  Twice it happened that when letting go of the rope, wanting to stop the pulling, the cable just kept reeling in.  I had to jump over and turn the tractor off to stop it.  This seems like a real safety hazard, and could cause some bodily harm.   I’m really not comfortable wondering if the cable is going to stop when I want it to. 
I called the dealer that sold it and he said it was due to icing.

These Are made in Denmark, where they are certainly used in the cold weather.  Dosen’t sem right that they would sell them with this condition being a “maybe”  thing.

I have adjusted the clutch according to the book.

Check me out please.

-Disengage the PTO
-loosen locknuts
-pull lever or rope as if you were wanting to “pull”
-Finger tighten the bolts
-Let go of lever/rope
-Further tighten bolts 1 ¾ turns
-tighten locknuts

Seem simple and straight forward, but I still get the same results.

[Al B]

This question is in reference to my other one on Jan. 30.  I'm not trying to drag on, but this problem could be potentially dangerous. 
 
As stated, I have experienced "Iceing- up" (that's what the dealer called it), a couple of times when pulling in and the cable would not stop. Had to shut off tractor. Both times the cable was dragging through snow.  First time it was 0 degrees F.  Second it was in the 20's.


If this is inherent to this type of winch, so be it.  If not, I would like to find a fix.

Do other makes of winches have "Iceing- up" problems in cold weather?

What can be done to  prevent it from happening?

[Ed_K]

 I took mine apart and found no solution to keeping it from iceing up. The clutch fiber is wet and just like sticking your tongue on metal it'll stick till it warms up. Turn the pto on and let it run, when the cable tightens to the end it will brake free. Then apply some presure to the clutch till it warm up, and you'll be ok for the day.

[Woodhog]

I run a Norse 400 (hinged Butt Plate type)..

Use it in all temperature ranges -20 C to days around freezing, wet snow dry snow etc. never had this problem you refer too...

When it is working if you just ride the clutch lever a little and let it
slip it should get hot and dry out the plates...

Regarding your main line turned into a coil spring at the hook end..

Mine will do this at times... If I then put on a real big load 4 -5  16 foot spruce logs and give it a real good work out the cable will
straighten out again...

Also you can put a choker on a stout tree, hook on the mainline
and pull it really tight and leave it sit all night that way, this will sometimes pull out the kinks in the end of the cable....

The most agrivating problem with my winch is foul turns, (one turn will get jammed under another and just as you  have dragged the
d#### cable to the log it  stops reeling off the winch. you then have to hook to a tree and pull it loose with the tractor.. or sometimes you can pull it in a few turns on the winch and give it
a sharp pull and it will break free on the drum..

Have fun and be prepared for lots of walking....

[slowzuki]

My friends father uses a 3 point mounted winch in his operations.  Every night he hangs his able out to the telephone pole in their yard to make it easier to work the next day.

Ken

[SwampDonkey]

Alot of folks do as slozuki says at the end of the day. Makes life easier starting the next day.

cheers

[thecfarm]

I have a Norse too and have never had a iceing problem,but when it gets down to 10,I head for the house.Warmer days are coming.I have the same problems with the foul turns too.But usally this is caused by twitching too much or pulling in a hard area I find out.

[Al B]

It was just one of those things...that happen.  Refer to the first post in  this thread and you will see what my problems were with my winch. 

I went to the dealer to talk in person with the head mechanic.  Took about 5 minutes to narrow down what apparently was wrong.  He asked me if I oiled the chain, on the winch.  I said I did, about once a week,  as the book says to do.  He said..."A HUH!  Thats your problem!"  I met his statement, with my usual blank stare that says huhhh?

He went on to say that the chain should never be oiled.  It gets on the clutch lining...da.da...  He suggests replacing the chain about every two years - relatively cheap, he says. 

So this is an obvious cause of my not being able to pull anything (clutch slipping) no matter where I adjusted it.  Made sense to me.

Now he had my full attention, and went on to say that he thought it was also the cause of my "icing - up" problem.  My most ass-tute response to this was, of course,  another "huhhh?.  Well, I guess under the right conditions (temps etc. ) this oil on the clutch can also get quite sticky and really gum things up to the point that I experienced.

Wow!  Two, completely opposite, -from one extreme to the other, -consequences from just oiling the chain.

I used two cans of break cleaner and just kept spraying the chain, hoping to get enough on the clutch to clean whatever oil there was on it. 

Re-ajusted clutch, according to book, and gave it a shot.  By jove, I think he is on to something here.  The winch pulled fine.  Didn't get a chance to use it a lot but, I did put quite a load on it successfully.

As to the other extreme -"Icing up".  I'm hoping he is right.  Time will tell.  Too warm today! (Isn't that a good thing?)

I was concerned enough about the "Icing up" problem to also email the Fransgard people, in Denmark.  Received a reply the next day that said I would be receiving a phone call from them.  Hasn't happen yet, but expect it will. 

Moral?  I don't know.   I did what the book said, but apparently a little too zealously. On their maintenance list, on the next line, right after "Lubricate the chain once a week", it says "no oil on clutch lining", as if it were a seperate maintance task, (or non-task?).   

Honestly, had it said "not to get any oil on the clutch when oiling the chain", it would have made a lot more sense to me.  But then keep in mind that I'm a guy who says huhh?  an awful lot.

[leweee]

Moral?  I don't know.   I did what the book said, but apparently a little too zealously. On their maintenance list, on the next line, right after "Lubricate the chain once a week", it says "no oil on clutch lining", as if it were a seperate maintance task, (or non-task?).   

Honestly, had it said "not to get any oil on the clutch when oiling the chain", it would have made a lot more sense to me.  But then keep in mind that I'm a guy who says huhh?  an awful lot.

Al B   remember now english isn't denmarks first choice langauge of instruction. probable lost a bite in the translation

[J_T]

Have found a good spray chain lube works on some things and don't run on every thing else I get my new chain at a farm store is usuly cheper to buy a ten foot rool than a cut peice that you need. Most time since I am tighter than DanG I take it off an old combine

[Al B]

Al B remember now english isn't denmarks first choice langauge of instruction. probable lost a bite in the translation

Yeah, that's what I realized. 

So J T  What is the name of the chain lube you mentioned?

[J_T]

Shucks Al B I'm out or been to tight to buy any . But I'll go to Rual King and see and get back to you.

[Al B]

Thanks J_T.

Now listen...  You sound rather thrifty.  - I can appreciate that-  I don't want you to burn any extra gas going to get this info.  Whenever you are there next will be fine. 

I consider myself pretty thrifty at times.  The more sheds I build the more "stuff" I can store.  Been "re-cycling"  long before it was a politically correct word.

A few years ago the blasted feds made the towns use modern "recycling centers"  instead of a "dump".  This pretty much stopped "dump picking"  I really felt as if I'd lost a hobby.  People throw away some amazing stuff!

[J_T]

Al B Yep had me couple hundred tons stuff piled up here My rich neighbor called EPA till I finley just sold most of it now I got it spread out so it dont look like as much Now I need a can crusher as I got about six hundred pounds lyng around. O yea the bank has been hunting my rich neighbor's skidsteer and dump truck ;DLast two things threw out were a cook stove I sold ten minete later for fifty bucks and a like new even had the books with it a kenmore pot scrubber dish washer man's wife wanted a quiet one My wife says this one an't loud to her