Drying Reclaimed Oak

[Swing_blade_Andy]

Last year I published some pics in a gallery from a bunch of Lock gates I reclaimed.

http://gallery55364.fotopic.net/c167030_1.html

I have now customers who will buy kitchen tables made from this timber and so I need to dry it very well and very low MC.

Any suggestions or experience covering timber that has undergone 180 years of seasoning in the sea. As you can see there is a lot of reaction between the salt and tannic acid (I presume), which produced a stain that resembles iodine.

Will this leech out with the moisture?

I have contracted with a local sawmill, which has a small vacuum kiln. They have about 1 cub meter spare in the next charge (which will be ash). Will my oak effect his ash if its dreid together? Is there going to be any different outcomes to fresh cut oak? Anyone know?

Andrew

[Swing_blade_Andy]

looking for the thing to up load pics...

where do I look..

got to get used to the new format.

Andrew

[Paul_H]

Hello Andy,

When you post you will see a "additional Options" button.Click there and you will see the right place to upload.

[Swing_blade_Andy]

try again with the pics

hope it works

Andrew

[serg]

Hello! In vacuum dryers I dried an oak of 800 years which have lain in water. Thickness of 70 millimeters width of 550 millimeters, length of 2500 millimeters. 35 days, up to humidity of 5 %. Temperature of 58 degrees С . Sergey.

[Swing_blade_Andy]

Thats cool serg.. seems like a very long schedule.

Do you have any pics of the timbers... did you get the same stain? Did it come out at all or dull any?

What do you think about the affects on freach timber in the same charge?

Andrew

[Den Socling]

hi Andrew,

I've vacuum dried reclaimed oak in 110 hours. I've also dried it with freshly cut White Oak in 176 hours. No problems at all.

There's some pictures at our website but they don't do the stuff justice.
http://www.pcspecialties.com/redoakwetHC.htm
Den

[serg]

I probably badly understand about what there is a speech? The wet oak of 800 years which have lain in water dries difficultly. When it(him) saw that on air it(he) bursts. Or there is a speech about change of color? Sergey.

[Den Socling]

Sergey,

I have heard the same thing about reclaimed wood cracking as soon as it's sawed. I have received some that was so cracked when it got here that I took pictures before going into the kiln. Some cracks closed and I haven't seen new cracks when I take it out.

I don't understand your last sentence.

Den

[Swing_blade_Andy]

Thanks Den
Sergey spahseebah par drook. troodniy rahbottaheet dah?

I'll give it a go and show you how it works. The Kiln operator has told me that he will use a cycle over 2 weeks.... Sounds a lot do you think?

My boards are 300x 45mmx 2.8m
and 130x130mm x 2.8m

Let us pray.....

Andrew

Den I think sergey was asking if my post was about change of colour as well?

[Hugh Darty]

Last year I published some pics in a gallery from a bunch of Lock gates I reclaimed.

http://gallery55364.fotopic.net/c167030_1.html

I have now customers who will buy kitchen tables made from this timber and so I need to dry it very well and very low MC.

Any suggestions or experience covering timber that has undergone 180 years of seasoning in the sea. As you can see there is a lot of reaction between the salt and tannic acid (I presume), which produced a stain that resembles iodine.

Will this leech out with the moisture?

I have contracted with a local sawmill, which has a small vacuum kiln. They have about 1 cub meter spare in the next charge (which will be ash). Will my oak effect his ash if its dreid together? Is there going to be any different outcomes to fresh cut oak? Anyone know?

Andrew

Swing Blade,
The blue will stay. The only option I know of is bleaching, which may work for a short time and then return. As for the dring, you should have no problem. Reclaimed wood (previously milled, not reclaimed logs)usually can be dried fast ( lots of heat) and not have the same drying defects as green wood.
I was once in the reclaimed wood business (heart pine and oak) and saw the blue metal stain a lot. I also saw it a lot in reclaimed sunken logs. I assume it came from iron in the riverwater, it was worse in some rivers than in others.
Good Luck
Hugh (Sawtooth) Darty

[serg]

Andrew, hi! I dried such oak of 35 days of 70 millimeter. An oak of 800 years water of 45 millimeter I dry 18 days. Up to residual humidity of 5-6 %. A marriage(spoilage) is not present. Color does not vary. You to dry 130х130 millimeter an oak? You inform results? Sergey.

[Swing_blade_Andy]

Sergey
khahrahsho  par drook


Thanks for the tips Hugh
do you know whether the blue will come out and stain freash wood in the same load?

I will certainly post the schedule and the results when I get them in about 2 weeks.

Watch this space
Andrew

[Don_Lewis]

When you dry sinker lumber, you have to go very slowly and still expect a fair amount of degrade. Bacteria have been working on the wood and the strength has been diminished. As for color, that should be a plus as it is. Two weeks seems fast to me.

[Swing_blade_Andy]

Thanks for the advise Don.

I just dropped the timber off to the Kiln operator today. He said that he would cook it for 2 weeks under auto vacuum(he didn't know how much) with a temparature schedule starting at 45 degrees and steadily raising it to 75 degrees.

Currently the moisture is around to 38 -48% mark. I've put some fresh oak in with it as a bench mark test. I hope that I don't get any more degrade as its quite 'rustic' at the moment.

Cheers
Andrew

[serg]

 Andrew, hi! Haste is not necessary. Vacuum 0.09 temperature of boiling of water of 45 degrees. Look page of a site. These are simple dryers with a computer has made a mistake, a sharp mode the first day of 80 degrees. The ends of an oak have bursted, they give a moisture the first. Then I have placed a vacuum dryer and 3 days without presence of vacuum held temperature of 35 degrees, the ends of an oak have received humidifying own pair. For 4 days I have lifted vacuum and have finished drying. Dried up to 4 % of humidity. The oak dried in regular intervals and cracks were closed densely. I recommended to place them in glue a bar. I of 75  degrees do not put a maximum of 65 degrees. Let will be longer but quality. I wait the message. Sergey.                                                                http://www.vacuums.ru/news9.html

[Swing_blade_Andy]

Interesting stuff Sergei

Thanks for the link.. got a chance to try out my Russian again... Needs a lot of work I have to say.

Its much easier writing Russian using your alphabet than to use phonetic spelling with our alphabet.

Anyway. I got to Ireland for a week so I'll be off line for a while.. I'll check in when I get back and see if there is any news from the man cooking my timber. I hope that my man doesn't overcook it as you said that the ends burst.

See you all soon
Andrew

[serg]

Good luck to you. Sergey.

[Hugh Darty]

Sergey
khahrahsho  par drook


Thanks for the tips Hugh
do you know whether the blue will come out and stain freash wood in the same load?

I will certainly post the schedule and the results when I get them in about 2 weeks.

Watch this space
Andrew

I would think that it would stain the fresh wood if it touched. I dont't think it would affect it otherwise.

Hugh

[Swing_blade_Andy]

Well I promised to update you all after the reclaimed timber was out of the kiln.

The timbers had nearly 2weeks in a vacuum kiln with a temp cycle going from 45 degrees up to 70 and then back down. The results were very varied indeed.

Most of the timber was about 45mm by 250mm oak, which was been partially submerged in salt water for over 150 years. When the timber came out of the kiln, the degrade was fairly dramatic in some boards with lumps and twists which made the recovery poor. The moisture content going in was reasonable consistent at 45 –60% but when it came out the moisture was all over the place. Over 1/3 of the boards had lost next to no water at all as they were still reading 45-60%. The remaining 2/3 gave reading from 8% up to 25%, but strangely it varied quite a bit in the same board. Typically the ends of the boards which are mostly heavily stained indigo gave the lowest reading and the centre of the boards which were mostly unstained were still quite wet – 30+%

However I have now used a couple of the boards to build a kitchen table for a client who is overjoyed with the result as it is quite unique in their experience. The main characteristic was that the timber, which was clearly submerged, was as hard as anything I have ever worked with – I mean it’s in the league of Iron Bark from Nth Australia. I’ve destroyed planers and routers getting this table out the door. Here are some pics of the results



I am not sure that it really feasible to invest in more forced drying of these. Perhaps I should just cut them all to size (14 tonnes) and let it dry slow. At least it will not soak up as much money and I hope I’ll get a more even dry with less degrade.
Andrew

[Swing_blade_Andy]

Nope .. Can't do it..

System tells me that to use another file extension.... HHHuue

(don't understand..)   ..Help!!!
Andrew

[Swing_blade_Andy]

uploading the pics I promiced

Andrew

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Looks like a sunken Pine we sawed tother day, with all that black streaky stuff in the wood.

[Furby]

 
I like it!

[james]

andrew ;
     if you are using a electic meter to check mc it will give a false reading on wood reclaimed from salt water the more minerals that change the colour will effect the electrical resistance of the wood
james

[Swing_blade_Andy]

Thats interesting james and it makes sence.
However I can yet figure why the blue reads lower than the natural colour sections... I thought it would have been the other way around.



Andrew

[james]

depends on what the mineral is that is staining the wood iron or sulpher have lower conductivity than copper for example
james

[Den Socling]

Actually, there's two ways of measuring moisture electronically. Pin-type meters measure resistance but meters without pins measure capacitance.

[Swing_blade_Andy]

Thats interesting stuff.
My moisture meter has a 'pad' and it averages the reading over the whole pad area (about the size of a box of matches). I am reasonably sure that the staining was due to the effects of salt water.

I was wondering also. This wood came out very very hard indeed, but also quite brittle. I was wondering wether there wasn't an elemnt of case hardening going on. In whcih case should the drying environment he interdispersed with steam injection?

I'm not complaining about the end product, its fine wood, but very very difficult to work, my hand tools were not up to the job.. they just bounced off.
Andrew

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Old watersoaked wood needs to dry slowly, at least ours does.  Vac Kiln was how we were going to do it, with low heat, then set pitch in the pine at high temp.